Insider information: Things I think I know heading in to the first day of the draft

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-27-2017, 09:05 AM)Au165 Wrote: Not really betting on the draft is frankly dumb. If we were talking strictly based on schematics I'd say Davis is a better fit. When you break down their film what you see a team who usually only pushes one guy up the field to clear out the underneath. I think what Davis brings is the underneath route running that they will like. I also still believe Williams goes before Baltimroe so it may be moot.

True, heck both may be gone by then...They are both solid prospects.  I just hope somehow Hooker doesn't end up sliding to them.  I like their defense right now, as the Bengals seem to have their number.  

And, sure, betting on the draft is stupid, but it is also fun.  

[Au165]

(04-27-2017, 09:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: True, heck both may be gone by then...They are both solid prospects.  I just hope somehow Hooker doesn't end up sliding to them.  I like their defense right now, as the Bengals seem to have their number.  

And, sure, betting on the draft is stupid, but it is also fun.  

I think Hooker goes to the Chargers at 7. They built their defense in the past around Weddle and they realize the value of a good safety, if the medicals check he si their guy.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-27-2017, 09:25 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think Hooker goes to the Chargers at 7. They built their defense in the past around Weddle and they realize the value of a good safety, if the medicals check he si their guy.

Agreed, plus they did ok with their last OSU first rounder...

[Crowe]

(04-26-2017, 08:24 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think I could live with Ross at 9.

It would feel like a wasted opportunity to trade down because we would almost certainly still be able to nab him in the middle of the round, but I understand that trading down requires a second team and there may not be anyone willing to trade up at that spot.

If the Bengals are confident that Ross makes their offense exponentially better, then I'm on board.

Now, if we could trade down to 16 or 17 and still get him, that would just be incredible.

...But we won't haha.

I could as long as he doesn't get injured, but I still personally like Davis better.

[Benton]

(04-27-2017, 08:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Remember there was some doubt when the Bengals drafted their only Hall of Famer out of college because of significant knee injuries.  And there are also countless cases where the player was durable in college and glass in the NFL (Chris Perry).  

Almost every pick in Rd 1 has some warts of some kind.  However, it is a very deep draft of really good talent on defense and I am sure they will be adding depth at LB, DT, DE, and possibly CB.  

Fair points, but my issue is we don't need depth at dl. We need a starter. We can't just lean on Carlos Dunlap forever, or hope that burfict isn't suspended/injured when someone busts through the line. That's been an issue for a couple years, whereas we've got receivers collecting dust.

[Au165]

(04-27-2017, 10:03 AM)Benton Wrote: Fair points, but my issue is we don't need depth at dl. We need a starter. We can't just lean on Carlos Dunlap forever, or hope that burfict isn't suspended/injured when someone busts through the line. That's been an issue for a couple years, whereas we've got receivers collecting dust.

I don't think your drafting a starter at DE no matter what. I think that Johnson starts the year taking the bulk of the snaps with the rookie in for specific packages. Over the year I believe the rookie would then slowly swap that split.

[Okeana]

(04-25-2017, 09:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Here is what I have learned.  

The Bengals agree that Ross is a dynamic playmaker and they aren't concerned with his medicals.  He could be our pick at #9.  That isn't just wishful thinking by me, as he is my hope for our first pick.  They feel that NFL teams would have to play two deep safeties, which would open up the running game.  This last worked when they had Henry (how many times have we said that here!) and it allowed for Rudi's 1400 yard season.


All of the Bengals TEs were injured last year, and injured significantly.  Some played through the injuries, some could not.  They are still very high on Kroft, Uzomah, Hewitt, and Eifert.  They agree that Howard is a great prospect, but when pressed, they may lean towards the player in Ross as he does more to open up the running game by keeping the safeties back.  

They like the production of Derek Barnett, but are disappointed with his speed.  They don't think that he will be their top 10 pick.  

The backup guard Alex Redmond, from UCLA, has impressed the Bengals quite a bit.  He apparently didn't have the same strength training program in college and has put on nearly 20 lbs and has really impressed them with his improvement.  Andre Smith may actually be more of a backup to Fisher at RT, should Ced struggle and Fisher moves to the left side.  The competition at RG could be Westerman vs. Redmond, and they really, really like Redmond.  

More on Ced:  they feel they did him a tremendous disservice by moving him to RT.  They feel there is no way he won't be ready to be an excellent LT this year.  He has added strength, if fully healthy, and they believe that if he was being drafted in this year's draft class, he would undoubtedly be the first offensive lineman taken.

They feel that there will be excellent choices at RB, but I felt a certain interest in Donta Foreman.  They likely won't be taking one of them very early.  

They like Jordan Willis, but don't love him.  They feel he will be overdrafted because of the speed he ran at the combine but that his speed didn't translate to his playing speed.  I emphasized the difference in his "get off" on film on obvious pass rushing downs, where (as a LDE) he didn't have to worry about a RB assignment as a read-option.

They are REALLY high on Billings, WJIII, and Clayton Fedjelum.  They think all three will be significant contributors this year.  

I didn't get anything specific about AJM, but I will surmise that they will keep him as insurance to Dalton having an injury.  They feel so strongly about a lot of their roster that they don't have to deal AJM and get a specific position that can't be addressed with their draft picks.

I'm personally still hopeful they can trade him to Cleveland for #33 overall and get another stud LB to go with their current crop.  That is one of the only positions where I see the depth as really thin, other than Tackle and RB.  

That's all I've got, folks.  Here's to a draft that we look back on and remember as the one that started the Championship run!!!

I agree with you on almost everything.  I would love ross at 9 even tho no one mocks him that high, but he's a great scheme fit for our team and thats what matters to me.  Ive settled on about 7 guys who i think we could see in the first and would be happy with any of them.  People get hung up one guy and think he's the only pick that will make them happy and thats a recipe for a very unhappy life.  


I think they could trade AJM and really have postured him to be an option depending on need after first round run on these bad quarterbacks.  If the browns don't draft a qb in the first and in the 2nd most of them are gone than AJM could look like a really good option even if he's just a temporary fit.  Same thing can be said for Jets or Cardinals. 

I think its clear they want LF and may trade up in the end of first to secure Mixon.  The top end of this RB is so good that they will make a play for someone.  Foreman is good, but is he really better than Hill ?  I think they would be let down 

[Aquapod770]

(04-25-2017, 09:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:  
More on Ced:  they feel they did him a tremendous disservice by moving him to RT.  They feel there is no way he won't be ready to be an excellent LT this year.  He has added strength, if fully healthy, and they believe that if he was being drafted in this year's draft class, he would undoubtedly be the first offensive lineman taken.

There's confidence in your players and then there is full blown cognitive impairment. If they truly feel this way it is most likely to be due to the latter. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

I wouldn't complain too much about Ross, but I like Davis better (the difference in speed is really negligible).
Other than what you and Lap are saying, I'm just not seeing the Bengals move away from the 6'+ WR's for Ross.

[masterpanthera_t]

(04-26-2017, 08:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: To be fair, I posted this before Lap's interview's today...so, you heard it here first.  And I did nail the first, second, sixth, and seventh round picks last year.  

I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't ease my concerns that the Bengals would give out info that could be used by other teams.  

But, having said that, I'm still a glutton for the kind of news you provided so a big  :andy: to you.  

I guess it's just bittersweet. 

[Vas Deferens]

I see ross being as good as marvin jones out the gate. Not sure I want him at that price, but I won't be as disappointed as I was last year.

Great post SH. thanks.

[Okeana]

(04-27-2017, 01:43 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I wouldn't complain too much about Ross, but I like Davis better (the difference in speed is really negligible).
Other than what you and Lap are saying, I'm just not seeing the Bengals move away from the 6'+ WR's for Ross.

Here's the one thing I will say.  No top WR plays 4 years especially in a small school.  I understand people bought into this media push for him early on, but most people have him going much later now and there is several good reasons.  The guys considered round 1 guys aren't much better than round 2 or 3 guys.  Ross may not be a better prospect than Davis, but he is a much better prospect for the Bengals.  If i draft Ross I draft him because of the potential this guy translates in the nfl.  If they draft Davis at 9 than ur not getting compared to receivers, but rather every other prospect that you could draft at 9 and their relative value.  there are about 5 or 6 guys I would take over Davis

[Benton]

(04-27-2017, 10:14 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think your drafting a starter at DE no matter what. I think that Johnson starts the year taking the bulk of the snaps with the rookie in for specific packages. Over the year I believe the rookie would then slowly swap that split.

Agreed.

And this is a good draft to get that guy, let him rotate in, then take over in a year or two and let MJ rotate around. MJ still has a lot of play left in him, that would extend that a good bit.

Similar line of thinking, we could get a DT to rotate in and take over soon.

[Au165]

(04-27-2017, 03:49 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed.

And this is a good draft to get that guy, let him rotate in, then take over in a year or two and let MJ rotate around. MJ still has a lot of play left in him, that would extend that a good bit.

Similar line of thinking, we could get a DT to rotate in and take over soon.

Not sure that really applies with DT. Billings is in his second year and Geno, while his contract is up next year, was one of the most productive interior 4-3 d lineman last year. I think Geno gets another 3-4 year contract. This is what kind of muddies the water for me on Allen. I like him a lot, but I am not sure what we do with him. I think he can play RE, but think he excels better at a 3 technique. My hope is if Allen is there we trade with someone who can use him and get value that way.

[Bengal Dude]

(04-27-2017, 03:46 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I see ross being as good as marvin jones out the gate.  Not sure I want him at that price, but I won't be as disappointed as I was last year.  

Great post SH.  thanks.

The Bengals wanted speed last year. We had Coleman as the #1 WR and then we tried to trade up for Fuller. Coleman is 5'11'' and had to learn route running. Fuller was known for dropping a lot of passes. Ross is better than these two guys. He can run routes and track the ball. Ross is the guy I'm wanting the most (that's also realistic).

[Okeana]

(04-27-2017, 04:00 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: The Bengals wanted speed last year. We had Coleman as the #1 WR and then we tried to trade up for Fuller. Coleman is 5'11'' and had to learn route running. Fuller was known for dropping a lot of passes. Ross is better than these two guys. He can run routes and track the ball. Ross is the guy I'm wanting the most (that's also realistic).

Bingo is ur nameo the fact he loves the team and the coaches love him is a huge plus.  

[lostpoet2]

(04-26-2017, 10:41 PM)Shady Wrote: Like Antonio Brown?  They're the same size. 

No, not really. D. Jackson and J Ross are speed merchants with blazing speed.  Antonio Brown isn't the fastest guy on his team, but he is incredibly shifty, which makes him practically uncoverable.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/19072/ryan-shazier-wins-epic-foot-race-flashes-breakout-star-potential

[bengals67]

If Andy can get 3 seconds to throw having Ross opens things up big time for AJ and Eifert or makes opposing D very vulnerable to getting torched by Ross.

If they pick Ross it is a "needs" pick instead of "best player available" which maybe should have been the strategy in prior drafts.

[bengalbiff]

I'm not okay with drafting a tiny receiver and just leaving the D line to later rounds. Yeah we got Geno later but when was the last time a DE we drafted did anything? The answer Carlos. Since then we got Hunt and Clarke. But hey let's just draft another base end to play on the open end since its worked out so great so far. There will be no pass rush at all again next year.

[TKUHL]

(04-27-2017, 07:25 PM)bengalbiff Wrote: I'm not okay with drafting a tiny receiver and just leaving the D line to later rounds.  Yeah we got Geno later but when was the last time a DE we drafted did anything?  The answer Carlos.  Since then we got Hunt and Clarke.  But hey let's just draft another base end to play on the open end since its worked out so great so far.  There will be no pass rush at all again next year

Carlos even fell a bit due to the "lack of motivation" label scouts gave him and also a DUI charge.