Sando Ranks Andy 3rd Tier QB

[Bengalholic]

NFL Insider Mike Sando compiled his rankings of starting QB's, with the help of 35 NFL personnel guys.

The rankings placed QB's in 4 tiers. Andy was tied for 18th overall, with Kaepernick...which has him low in the 3rd tier...which is described as "quarterbacks who are good enough to start but need lots of support, making it tougher to contend at the highest level".

Here are a couple of comments from those who voted on the rankings...

"I like Dalton, but I've seen him enough times to know his receivers have to make plays for him," a personnel director said. "He has had good receivers making big catches. I saw him being so sporadic needing a win to go into the playoffs or being a wild-card team, and playing terrible. He was the reason they lost."

"Dalton can play as a high 3 or a low 3," a different personnel director said. "He has to win with his head and his short accuracy and the pieces around him. They have given him good pieces around him. The injuries at wideout really hurt him [in the playoffs]. He cannot carry the load, but he is solid. He is a win-with quarterback, not a win-because-of quarterback."

Read more @ CincyJungle and ESPN

[RoyleRedlegs]

He was why we lost to Indy? Oh brother.

[BengalChris]

Dalton is going to continue to get snubbed until he can win when it counts in the playoffs. It's no surprise that he gets bad press and will continue to get it until he wins in the post-season.

Indy owned him in both games last year, not just in the playoffs. Then, of course, there was the Cleveland game, which will be remembered for a long time and is in the record books.

Dalton, of course, is not the sole target. Mike Brown tops my list and I question his desire and manhood. But Dalton wanted the franchise contract and took it, so until he delivers on it [which didn't come close last year] he's deserving of the press he gets.

[Aquapod770]

After his 2014 season this is about right. He was trending up after 2013 (before the horrible playoff game), hopefully he'll bounce back and have a solid 2015 season. Maybe even get a playoff win

[Westwood Bengal]

Seems about right. This team will ride Hill, Gio and the Oline to success, and when they are playing well, Andy will be able to contribute.

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-25-2015, 03:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Dalton is going to continue to get snubbed until he can win when it counts in the playoffs. It's no surprise that he gets bad press and will continue to get it until he wins in the post-season.

Indy owned him in both games last year, not just in the playoffs. Then, of course, there was the Cleveland game, which will be remembered for a long time and is in the record books.

Dalton, of course, is not the sole target. Mike Brown tops my list and I question his desire and manhood. But Dalton wanted the franchise contract and took it, so until he delivers on it [which didn't come close last year] he's deserving of the press he gets.

Dalton owned the Colts the year before when he had healthy players.  

[Aquapod770]

(07-25-2015, 04:11 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Dalton owned the Colts the year before when he had healthy players.  

A lot changes in a year...clearly  :snark:

[CornerBlitz]

3rd tier is on point. Below average starting QB but not a bum. Would start on a third of the teams in the league.

[TSwigZ]

So true he's def a win-with not win-because

[GreenCornBengal]

Enough yap yap about Dalton, is it time to play yet?

[wolfkaosaun]

(07-25-2015, 03:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: NFL Insider Mike Sando compiled his rankings of starting QB's, with the help of 35 NFL personnel guys.

The rankings placed QB's in 4 tiers. Andy was tied for 18th overall, with Kaepernick...which has him low in the 3rd tier...which is described as "quarterbacks who are good enough to start but need lots of support, making it tougher to contend at the highest level".

Here are a couple of comments from those who voted on the rankings...

"I like Dalton, but I've seen him enough times to know his receivers have to make plays for him," a personnel director said. "He has had good receivers making big catches. I saw him being so sporadic needing a win to go into the playoffs or being a wild-card team, and playing terrible. He was the reason they lost."

"Dalton can play as a high 3 or a low 3," a different personnel director said. "He has to win with his head and his short accuracy and the pieces around him. They have given him good pieces around him. The injuries at wideout really hurt him [in the playoffs]. He cannot carry the load, but he is solid. He is a win-with quarterback, not a win-because-of quarterback."

Read more @ CincyJungle and ESPN

They lost to the Steelers in 2012? Or the Ravens in 2013? Or the Broncos in 2014?

Those were all must win games to get into the playoffs, and they got in.
His QB rating in each game: 58.8, 62.2, 93.1
Not the greatest, I know. But I don't recall a game where it was "win it or you're done" and the Bengals lost while Dalton has been their QB.

I can get behind the "win-with" aspect, but I doubt many quarterbacks could have succeeded with the receivers we had. Sanu against Vontae Davis? That's your best receiving option. No Green, Jones, Gresham, or Eifert. That's 4 starters gone.

[Utts]

"He cannot carry the load, but he is solid. He is a win-with quarterback, not a win-because-of quarterback."


I don't agree 100% with solid due to his wild inconsistency, but the overall sentiment there is spot on.

[BengalChris]

(07-25-2015, 04:11 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Dalton owned the Colts the year before when he had healthy players.  

Doesn't have anything to do with how he played last year. Besides what you are really saying is that the receivers owned the Colts 2013 since clearly without AJ Green the Bengals could barely get a first down all game. Not a vote of confidence that Dalton can get it done with average Joes in at WR.

[bengal kitten uk]

Until he improves his consistency it's hard to argue for a higher score than that.

If he played like he did against the Saints every game then he'd be Tier 1 but if he plays like he did against the Browns or Colts then low Tier 3 may be too high :\

[type_stripe]

It was a downward trend last season, but not significant because of the new offensive gameplan last year. It was a big change from what Gruden had Dalton doing his first 3 seasons. Once the flow gets going, I'm sure Dalton will start his upward trend again.

[wolfkaosaun]

(07-25-2015, 05:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Doesn't have anything to do with how he played last year. Besides what you are really saying is that the receivers owned the Colts 2013 since clearly without AJ Green the Bengals could barely get a first down all game. Not a vote of confidence that Dalton can get it done with average Joes in at WR.

So just ignore Dalton's 120.5 QB rating, 3 TDs, and 68.6% completion percentage in that game? Just because his receivers did well? Doesn't make any sense.

And Dalton did have to get it done with average Joes at receiver. He had to do it against the Falcons, Panthers, Colts, Ravens, and Broncos.

He went 3-1-1.

Falcons: 116.6 QB rating, 65.2% completion percentage, 1 passing touchdown.
Panthers: 93.5 QB rating, 76.7% completion percentage, 2 passing touchdowns.
Colts: 55.4 QB rating, 47.4% completion percentage, 0 touchdowns.
Ravens: 89.3 QB rating, 75% completion percentage, 2 rushing touchdowns.
Broncos: 93.1 QB rating, 68% completion percentage, 2 passing touchdowns.

So they beat two playoff teams, tied one, and lost to one while Dalton had to work with average Joe receivers. Had above a 93 Qb rating in 3 out of 5 games. Above an 89 in 4 out of 5.

So is Dalton going to be given credit there? Or is it all on Sanu, Tate, and Gresham?

[blt4584]

(07-28-2015, 02:43 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: So just ignore Dalton's 120.5 QB rating, 3 TDs, and 68.6% completion percentage in that game? Just because his receivers did well? Doesn't make any sense.

And Dalton did have to get it done with average Joes at receiver. He had to do it against the Falcons, Panthers, Colts, Ravens, and Broncos.

He went 3-1-1.

Falcons: 116.6 QB rating, 65.2% completion percentage, 1 passing touchdown.
Panthers: 93.5 QB rating, 76.7% completion percentage, 2 passing touchdowns.
Colts: 55.4 QB rating, 47.4% completion percentage, 0 touchdowns.
Ravens: 89.3 QB rating, 75% completion percentage, 2 rushing touchdowns.
Broncos: 93.1 QB rating, 68% completion percentage, 2 passing touchdowns.

So they beat two playoff teams, tied one, and lost to one while Dalton had to work with average Joe receivers. Had above a 93 Qb rating in 3 out of 5 games. Above an 89 in 4 out of 5.

So is Dalton going to be given credit there? Or is it all on Sanu, Tate, and Gresham?

For some of those games, mainly the Broncos game, the stats are a bit misleading due to the types of plays being run.

During the Denver game, Dalton was dreadful when asked to throw the ball more than about 5 yards past the LOS, so the staff adjusted and mainly started calling screens and dumpoffs. As a result, the numbers, other than yards, look ok but he still needed to be protected in a major way.

[wolfkaosaun]

(07-28-2015, 03:15 PM)blt4584 Wrote: For some of those games, mainly the Broncos game, the stats are a bit misleading due to the types of plays being run.

During the Denver game, Dalton was dreadful when asked to throw the ball more than about 5 yards past the LOS, so the staff adjusted and mainly started calling screens and dumpoffs. As a result, the numbers, other than yards, look ok but he still needed to be protected in a major way.

Falcons: 252 passing yards
Panthers: 323 passing yards, 25 rushing yards
Colts: 126 passing yards
Ravens: 266 passing yards, 14 rushing yards (only included because of the 2 rushing TDs)
Broncos: 146 passing yards, 25 rushing yards.

So basically the Denver and Colts game are the two where the yards aren't high. And why did Dalton need to be 'protected'? The running game was working extremely well, so why would they turn to Dalton while they're up the entire game pretty much? They ran for 207 total yards. Why would you want to air it out while the run game is having THAT much success? Dalton did what was asked of him. Sorry he didn't put up 300 passing yards.

[blt4584]

(07-28-2015, 03:21 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Falcons: 252 passing yards
Panthers: 323 passing yards, 25 rushing yards
Colts: 126 passing yards
Ravens: 266 passing yards, 14 rushing yards (only included because of the 2 rushing TDs)
Broncos: 146 passing yards, 25 rushing yards.

So basically the Denver and Colts game are the two where the yards aren't high. And why did Dalton need to be 'protected'? The running game was working extremely well, so why would they turn to Dalton while they're up the entire game pretty much? They ran for 207 total yards. Why would you want to air it out while the run game is having THAT much success? Dalton did what was asked of him. Sorry he didn't put up 300 passing yards.

Against Denver, it's not the fact that he didn't put up big numbers, it's the fact that he was missing his targets by miles when he was asked to put any distance at all on his passes.

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-28-2015, 03:21 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote:  Sorry he didn't put up 300 passing yards.

Peyton did and they lost.