Cedric Ogbeuhi with moving pictures.

[muskiesfan]

I've already been lumped into the Ced bashing club, so I guess I'll chime in.

I feel like the OP did a solid job of using evidence to substantiate his claim. No, none of us are coaches or experts. That doesn't mean we cannot have an opinion. I personally don't know a single politician, but I hear plenty of people run off at the mouth.

I have absolutely nothing against Ced as a person. I think he's a poor football player, but I have hope that he'll improve. While I may be critical or have my doubts, he plays for my favorite team. Obviously, I want him to succeed. He's just not there yet. I have mentioned previously that I expect him to play poorly this year, but that I'll wait and see what he does in the regular season when it matters. I have also said multiple times that I will gladly admit I was wrong if he plays well this year.

Also, this has nothing to do with Whit. Like almost all of you, I love the guy and am a big fan. However, that has no impact on my thoughts of Ced. He HAS to get better. If he doesn't, my big worry is that we'll continue to be saddled with him because of our OLine coach.

[Atomic Orange]

Scheme definitely had a impact on that series. It was uptempo and fast. Was it too fast, not sure yet we'll see. But you can't deny Dalton was releasing the ball quickly. The run blocking for the most part was pretty good. As mentioned in another thread TB's defense may have also been using the vanilla playbook.

Having concern with the OL is absolutely warranted at this point in time.

BUT, maybe just maybe we are going to be a uptempo offense this year. Something i have been calling for a long time because i think we have the QB who can run it.

If allowed.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 10:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Yup.  Or look at the third one.  

It's a play action pass.  You can see how everyone else on the OL fires out like it's a run play, and you can watch the run fake.  The RDE guesses the snap count and gets a great jump.  Og realises it and drops to fend him off, and the OP is criticizing him for not getting a good drop on a play that he was never supposed to drop on in the first place.  If Og doesn't do that, the play gets blown up and the QB likely gets sacked.

A big part of the issue is that with all the zooming in on Ced, the context of the play and what he's actually supposed to be doing is completely lost.

And I watched the plays full screen. I zoom in on Ced to make it easier to see. 

Stop. Just stop.
He didn't get out of his stance at all. He just pops up. I never mentioned the drop. He doesn't ***** move. 

[Whatever]

(08-14-2017, 10:47 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Good way to build a bad team. 
Results mean shit if you can't replicate them. 

Better tell Eli Manning and David Tyree to hand those rings back, because no way either one of them repeats that pitch and catch.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 10:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: Better tell Eli Manning and David Tyree to hand those rings back, because no way either one of them repeats that pitch and catch.

But they don't go into the year planning "Hey, just run random patterns and I'll fling the ball and just hope you come down with it again"

They drill routes and techniques. 

Random occurrences do happen like that. But you don't build your team on it and you don't ignore it because it's uncomfortable. 

There's a huge difference between what I am talking about, replicating technique and form to be able to be a dependable blocker, and this weird strawman you are building. 

[*Synric*]

(08-14-2017, 10:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It's not about that. 
It's about his lack of technique on it. 

It's a trend in his play from snap to snap.

Again, not about the results. About the technique issues. 

Come man Ced had the win on that one you are being hard on him at least that. (Haven't had a chance to watch the rest chick got mad I'm watching vids on my phone instead of "along came poly" someone shoot me now). 

Anyway the QB continued to drop back make the edge deeper and deeper. Normally the QB would have stepped up forcing the OLB to either take the way way long route outside or make an inside move and Ced had the position to stop that.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:04 PM)Synric Wrote: Come man Ced had the win on that one you are being hard on him at least that. (Haven't had a chance to watch the rest chick got mad I'm watching vids on my phone instead of "along came poly" someone shoot me now). 

Anyway the QB continued to drop back make the edge deeper and deeper. Normally the QB would have stepped up forcing the OLB to either take the way way long route outside or make an inside move and Ced had the position to stop that.

Watch the full play. The DL gets off of him. He's following the QB deep on the screen. He's backside screen. He's not supposed to let that happen. That's front side screen. 

[THE PISTONS]

(08-14-2017, 09:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What of his play in college and last year?
Does that not matter?

Does it matter that these issues were issues in college and last year? 

Look...guys who are bad in college aren't 1st Round picks so I doubt that he had too many issue sin college.

Also tackles can sometimes improve from their 1st couple years in the league. Levi Jones struggled early on and improved. Lots of lineman do. Lots of lineman struggle and don't improve too.

People are wasting their time trying to analyze a quarter or so of preseason footage of him trying to prove their point.

I tend to think he'll struggle...but his play won't be dictated by this thread one way or the other.

[Luvnit2]

(08-14-2017, 10:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It's not about that. 
It's about his lack of technique on it. 

It's a trend in his play from snap to snap.

Again, not about the results. About the technique issues. 

Results don't matter. Really? It is 100% about the results. Bubba Watson won a major with horrible technique, but he won and has won other big money tourneys as well. Ernie Els has picture perfect technique and I don't believe he ever won a major.

[*Synric*]

(08-14-2017, 11:07 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Watch the full play. The DL gets off of him. He's following the QB deep on the screen. He's backside screen. He's not supposed to let that happen. That's front side screen. 

Yes man eventually the OLB starts getting around him as the play continues to go deeper...but realize in that situation the edge guy will always eventually win because of how deep the QB is...that was a a win for Ced.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Look...guys who are bad in college aren't 1st Round picks so I doubt that he had too many issue sin college.

Also tackles can sometimes improve from their 1st couple years in the league. Levi Jones struggled early on and improved. Lots of lineman do. Lots of lineman struggle and don't improve too.

People are wasting their time trying to analyze a quarter or so of preseason footage of him trying to prove their point.

I tend to think he'll struggle...but his play won't be dictated by this thread one way or the other.

That is 100% false. 
Teams jump on guys who have bad college careers based solely on physical traits all the time. Hell, Al Davis was a master of it. He did it so often he became a punchline despite being a truly great football mind for many years. 

Yes they can, but usually they have a core base for them to build on. I'm not sure, as of now, what that is for Ced. 

I've looked at his college games, games last year and this first pre-season game. There are trends. Why try to ignore them? 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Results don't matter. Really? It is 100% about the results. Bubba Watson won a major with horrible technique, but he won and has won other big money tourneys as well. Ernie Els has picture perfect technique and I don't believe he ever won a major.

More irrelevant comparisons! Yay!!!!

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Yes man eventually the OLB starts getting around him as the play continues to go deeper...but realize in that situation the edge guy will always eventually win because of how deep the QB is...that was a a win for Ced.

Again, it's about the technique. 
His technique gets sloppy so eventually he loses the block. It works on a screen in this case but the technique is not transferable and it's a problem I highlight on NON-SCREEN plays. 

[OrangeLacroix]

(08-14-2017, 11:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Results don't matter. Really? It is 100% about the results. Bubba Watson won a major with horrible technique, but he won and has won other big money tourneys as well. Ernie Els has picture perfect technique and I don't believe he ever won a major.

Haha. Comical comparison. And Els won 4 majors.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-14-2017, 11:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Results don't matter. Really? It is 100% about the results. Bubba Watson won a major with horrible technique, but he won and has won other big money tourneys as well. Ernie Els has picture perfect technique and I don't believe he ever won a major.

Ernie Els has won FOUR MAJORS. 4!

[Whatever]

(08-14-2017, 11:00 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: But they don't go into the year planning "Hey, just run random patterns and I'll fling the ball and just hope you come down with it again"

They drill routes and techniques. 

Random occurrences do happen like that. But you don't build your team on it and you don't ignore it because it's uncomfortable. 

There's a huge difference between what I am talking about, replicating technique and form to be able to be a dependable blocker, and this weird strawman you are building. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point.  Og's technique is still poor.  However, not every player has to be a technician to get the job done.  Mike Wallace has always been an awful route runner, but he's still an effective WR.  Og's performance against Tampa was ugly, from a technical standpoint, but he kept the QB upright and opened holes in the run game.  He did what he was asked to do in the gameplan.  If he can do that with poor technique, then he should be a solid LT if/when his technique improves.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I understand your point.  Og's technique is still poor.  However, not every player has to be a technician to get the job done.  Mike Wallace has always been an awful route runner, but he's still an effective WR.  Og's performance against Tampa was ugly, from a technical standpoint, but he kept the QB upright and opened holes in the run game.  He did what he was asked to do in the gameplan.  If he can do that with poor technique, then he should be a solid LT if/when his technique improves.

No they don't but they have other stand out traits. Ced does not. 
If he were a tough brawler with tech struggles, I'd agree with you. But he's passive to a fault. 

He didn't keep the QB upright. The scheme did. I think that's a huge distinction because when you need longer plays and you are going up against a starter for more than 2 drives, you need to know your LT can hold up. 

[THE PISTONS]

(08-14-2017, 11:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That is 100% false. 
Teams jump on guys who have bad college careers based solely on physical traits all the time. Hell, Al Davis was a master of it. He did it so often he became a punchline despite being a truly great football mind for many years. 

Yes they can, but usually they have a core base for them to build on. I'm not sure, as of now, what that is for Ced. 

I've looked at his college games, games last year and this first pre-season game. There are trends. Why try to ignore them? 

Why do you obsess over him so much that you watch college tape?

From what the coaches say, technique isn't his issue...it's core strength.

[OrangeLacroix]

(08-14-2017, 11:22 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Again, it's about the technique. 
His technique gets sloppy so eventually he loses the block. It works on a screen in this case but the technique is not transferable and it's a problem I highlight on NON-SCREEN plays. 

I get what you're saying. Those guys saying all they care about is results, I guess they forget the results from. last year.

It's like reds fans who get excited about a guy like Asher wojohowski or Arroyo after a start or two. In small sets, the outcomes can be fine. But, looking at technique, scheme, and other metrics, you can see the larger flaws and comprehend what eventually will happen.

Cedric was awful last year. There is nothing positive to go off of after a few pre season series.

The bengals had to play a certain way because of the o line woes.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-14-2017, 11:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why do you obsess over him so much that you watch college tape?

From what the coaches say, technique isn't his issue...it's core strength.

I watch college tape on a lot of offensive linemen every year. 
This isn't obsessing. Stop trying ad hominem like the others did. Be above that.