How and Why.

[Luvnit2]

(08-22-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Agreed. But, I saw an NFL executive talking about the draft. Only about 50% of 1st Round picks become starters. 50%!

The Bengals draft guys to replace veterans that leave and don't rely heavily on free agency. That 50% hit rate REALLY is a kink in that strategy!

Does it really? You do realize the other 50% of starters come via other than 1st round picks, trades (not many trades) or free agents. If a Burfict become a stud starter, it negates a 1st round bust. If a second,3rd or 4th rounder becomes an all pro like Geno or Dalton it can negate a 1st round bust (1st round pick and non starter within 3 years is a bust to me).

2008
9
Keith Rivers - Starter
LUS2009
6
Andre Smith - Starter
OT
Alabama

2010
21
Jermaine Gresham - Starter
TE
Oklahoma
2-time Pro Bowler[20]
2011
4
A. J. Green Starter
WR
Georgia
6-time Pro Bowler[21]
2012
17
Dre Kirkpatrick  Starter
DB
Alabama

27
Kevin Zeitler Starter
OG
Wisconsin

2013
21
Tyler Eifert Starter
TE
Notre Dame

2014
24
Darqueze Dennard -Not a starter.
DB
Michigan State
Jim Thorpe Award winner[22]
2015
21
Cedric Ogbuehi Projected starter . TBD

OT
Texas A&M
2016
24
William Jackson III - Projected starter TBD

DB
Houston



I say the Bengals have done well drafting 1st round starters. We can argue all day long about how good of a starter, but the reality is we have 1 of 10 that may not be a starter from round 1 the last 10 years or 90% success rate versus the league average only 50% success rate. 2017 is not included yet so we also only picked in the top 10 in drafts three times over the ten year span (30% ony 1 top 5 pick) and drafted in the 20's (60%)  a lot.


I know it is easy to trash our Bengals FO and the owner who many claim we suck drafting due to a small scouting department, but compared to the league our scouting department seems to have outperformed those with much bigger scouting departments.

[sandwedge]

(08-25-2017, 12:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Does it really? You do realize the other 50% of starters come via other than 1st round picks, trades (not many trades) or free agents. If a Burfict become a stud starter, it negates a 1st round bust. If a second,3rd or 4th rounder becomes an all pro like Geno or Dalton it can negate a 1st round bust (1st round pick and non starter within 3 years is a bust to me).

2008
9
Keith Rivers - Starter
LUS2009
6
Andre Smith - Starter
OT
Alabama

2010
21
Jermaine Gresham - Starter
TE
Oklahoma
2-time Pro Bowler[20]
2011
4
A. J. Green Starter
WR
Georgia
6-time Pro Bowler[21]
2012
17
Dre Kirkpatrick  Starter
DB
Alabama

27
Kevin Zeitler Starter
OG
Wisconsin

2013
21
Tyler Eifert Starter
TE
Notre Dame

2014
24
Darqueze Dennard -Not a starter.
DB
Michigan State
Jim Thorpe Award winner[22]
2015
21
Cedric Ogbuehi Projected starter . TBD

OT
Texas A&M
2016
24
William Jackson III - Projected starter TBD

DB
Houston



I say the Bengals have it on starters. We can argue all day long about how good of a starter, but the reality is we have 1 of 10 that may not be a starter from round 1 the last 10 years or 90% success rate versus the league average only 50% success rate. 2017 is not included yet so we also only picked in the top 10 in drafts three times over the ten year span (30% ony 1 top 5 pick) and drafted in the 20's a lot.


I know it is easy to trash our Bengals FO and the owner who many claim we suck drafting due to a small scouting department, but compared to the league our scouting department seems to have outperformed those with much bigger scouting departments.

All these guy would have been drafted in the 1st rd by another team in a heartbeat. Why we get beat up so much by fans for drafting these guys is beyond me. You'd have an argument if coaching was brought up but it can't be blamed on "small" scouting department.

[THE PISTONS]

Coaching is one thing. But when you don't sign external free agents to compete for starting jobs...you start a rookie who shouldn't be a starter.

Bodine is the perfect example. We don't start most of our 1st Round picks in Year 1...yet we draft Bodine in the 4th Round and hand him a starting job at C. He likely should have sat for a year or 2.

So...it's all relative.

[BenZoo2]

(08-25-2017, 01:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Coaching is one thing. But when you don't sign external free agents to compete for starting jobs...you start a rookie who shouldn't be a starter.

Bodine is the perfect example. We don't start most of our 1st Round picks in Year 1...yet we draft Bodine in the 4th Round and hand him a starting job at C. He likely should have sat for a year or 2.

So...it's all relative.

Not to mention that when your team doesn't sign many external draft picks we will be skewing the numbers because more of our draft picks, regardless of round, will start for us


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[sandwedge]

(08-25-2017, 01:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Coaching is one thing. But when you don't sign external free agents to compete for starting jobs...you start a rookie who shouldn't be a starter.

Bodine is the perfect example. We don't start most of our 1st Round picks in Year 1...yet we draft Bodine in the 4th Round and hand him a starting job at C. He likely should have sat for a year or 2.

So...it's all relative.

Again, who did Bodine replace? I believe it was Cook, who injuries basically killed him. Maybe Bodine was suppose to sit for a year or two but was pressed into service. Look, I'm not campaigning for Bodine or anything, but I saw a lot of Zeitler whiffs that got blamed on Bodine. Honestly this is probably a make or break time for him. he could move from below average to slightly above this year. 

My original point was the 1st rd picks were not bad picks that you can pin on the scouting department.

[muskiesfan]

(08-25-2017, 11:49 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Before you go puffing your chest out, lets see how this plays out first.

No chest puffing here. Just saying that normally Alexander fans are at the ready with plenty of excuses to try and spin everything for the waste of OLine coach. I get tired of reading how 2017 is really Ced's rookie year because he was injured his rookie year and didn't play all of last year, etc, etc, etc. No, he's a third year OT. Injured or not, he should've been studying the playbook, film, and working on his technique as much as possible. I have no evidence that he didn't do these things, but for how lost he can look on the field at times, I'd say he hasn't done all he could have.

I'll say it again, if Ced becomes at least an average OT in the league, I will gladly say I was wrong about him. However, the odds are in my favor that he will continue to sink instead of swim.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-25-2017, 01:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Coaching is one thing. But when you don't sign external free agents to compete for starting jobs...you start a rookie who shouldn't be a starter.

Bodine is the perfect example. We don't start most of our 1st Round picks in Year 1...yet we draft Bodine in the 4th Round and hand him a starting job at C. He likely should have sat for a year or 2.

So...it's all relative.

Yes it is.. your statement contradicts your ending... we do start players we draft especially rounds 1 and yes even other rounds by need.. not by oh you are a 1st rounder we are going to sit you though we need you.. that makes no sense...

Bodine was a need position, now we can debate was it a good choice but we drafted him with a high expectation that he could be a starter.. if we had a starter at center already he probably would have not played much...