Case building for taking Deshaun Watson over John Ross in Draft - 1st round REDO

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 12:40 PM)depthchart Wrote: I'm more for Deshaun Watson than McCarron & prefer Andy to McCarron but it may make sense to keep a talented QB room for a few reasons.

Starters can go down or even have career threatening injures like Teddy Bridgewater had.

Staying active in the QB market offers more chances to land that RARE ELITE level QB.

QB's hold their trade value pretty well offering trade options like the one the Patriots just used trading 3rd rounder Jacoby Brissett for 1st round WR Phillip Dorsett.

Also the Luxury of having Competition in a stacked QB room in a QB driven league.

Can shed Cap Spending money when a youngster beats out an older higher paid player that you can then Trade. Especially with quickly RISING QB contracts.

You have some good points on that list.

I just question if we have the right coaches here to develop a #2 and #3 QB that isn't going to play right away.

A hidden benefit of drafting a QB in the 1st Round is for the next 5 years we can hear Bengals management talk about how we can't spend in free agency because we have to re-sign Watson when he's a free agent in 5 years! 

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 01:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You have some good points on that list.

I just question if we have the right coaches here to develop a #2 and #3 QB that isn't going to play right away.

A hidden benefit of drafting a QB in the 1st Round is for the next 5 years we can hear Bengals management talk about how we can't spend in free agency because we have to re-sign Watson when he's a free agent in 5 years! 

I agree that it is way Outside the Bengals Box.

Also understand your points about the Bengals limited use of Free Agency making a need to use every possible Draft pick just to fill out enough quality starters on the Roster. So a high pick QB may seem like a Luxury Pick. I sort of saw John Ross as a Luxury pick.

I find "what if" topics interesting. Many say "what if" Zeitler and Whitworth had stayed which is a form of hindsight that we can't go back and change, so to me a 1st round pick redo is similar as a hindsight topic to discuss.

Just a different way to think about things.

Meanwhile, we have what is actually going on also to discuss. We have John Ross and Zeitler & Whitworth are gone.

I sometimes try to escape what is actually going on with "what if" topics maybe to lessen the boredom or as a coping mechanism. 

[XenoMorph]

(09-25-2017, 01:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: Deshaun Watson was 22 of 33 for 301 yards with 2 TD and 2 interceptions (plus 41 rushing yards) at the Patriots.
 
He did it behind an Offensive Line that is playing as poorly as the Bengals O-line and Watson is just a Rookie.
 
If I could Re-do the Bengals 1st round pick, I would take Deshaun Watson over John Ross.
We would not have even had to trade Dalton this year and just let Watson watch & learn for a season.
The team would be in a better Roster position than having John Ross. IMO
 
It is a QB driven league and Watson can play in the Pocket while also having a better ability than Dalton or McCarron to avoid the rush & Extend Plays. Aaron Rodgers can move around & roll out & extend plays behind a bad offensive line. Deshaun Watson is a prospect that offers the potential to extend plays which is a Big part of why players like Rodgers & Big Ben are successful. They get those extra few seconds that can kill a defense and Dalton & McCarron don't seem to excel in that area enough.
 
I think we passed on a Rare chance at a QB with Watson's traits to get a smallish receiver that set a 40 yard dash record which raised his Stock.
 
In a QB driven league, it may have made more sense to Stack the Roster at the QB position.
Watson showed Great poise in Championship games at Clemson both in the Pocket and reacting to the rush to extend plays.
Escaping pressure behind a poor O-line is what Aaron Rodgers does and we need a QB that has the potential to do the same.
Even Great offensive lines can break down at the worst moment of a Championship game and avoiding that pressure to make that play is what the Great QB's do. I would rather take my chances with a Deshaun Watson type player than Dalton or McCarron longer term for this reason. Especially if we keep going the Cheap & inexpensive route on the O-line.
 
I would give John Ross & AJ McCarron for Deshaun Watson right now but the Texans likely would not do it.
 
We could have just picked him with the 9th overall pick but passed on the 22 year old.
 
 

Um I don't even need to read it to know it doesn't make sense..

We have a Franchise QB
We have a Backup QB many here think is better than sliced bread


Why would we draft another QB in round 1?   when you can get a WR to help the QBs you got.

Makes no sense.

[Browns Town Bengal]

What has John Ross contributed so far? One reverse with subsequent fumble? Looking like a super bust

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 02:19 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Um I don't even need to read it to know it doesn't make sense..

We have a Franchise QB
We have a Backup QB many here think is better than sliced bread


Why would we draft another QB in round 1?   when you can get a WR to help the QBs you got.

Makes no sense.

Thanks for offering your Brilliant insight after not reading the nuances of the Thread.

We could offer the Texans John Ross, McCarron and a 1st round pick next year and they would not trade us Watson right now.

Watson is a Gold Nugget right now and we could have taken him over John Ross & traded McCarron for a 2nd round pick the same day.

To me, you sound senseless...

[XenoMorph]

(10-02-2017, 02:41 PM)depthchart Wrote: Thanks for offering your Brilliant insight after not reading the nuances of the Thread.

We could offer the Texans John Ross, McCarron and a 1st round pick next year and they would not trade us Watson right now.

Watson is a Gold Nugget right now and we could have taken him over John Ross & traded McCarron for a 2nd round pick the same day.

To me, you sound senseless...

Watson has had 1 good game this year....  

No reason to redraft to get him...

Just because you type out a paragraph doesn't make it a good idea.

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 02:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Watson has had 1 good game this year....  

No reason to redraft to get him...

Just because you type out a paragraph doesn't make it a good idea.

Just because you disagree doesn't make it a bad idea.

One Historic game dating back to 1961.

Far from a "senseless" idea to swap him out for John Ross if we could.

I would, you wouldn't, in a QB driven league.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 02:05 PM)depthchart Wrote: I agree that it is way Outside the Bengals Box.

Also understand your points about the Bengals limited use of Free Agency making a need to use every possible Draft pick just to fill out enough quality starters on the Roster. So a high pick QB may seem like a Luxury Pick. I sort of saw John Ross as a Luxury pick.

I find "what if" topics interesting. Many say "what if" Zeitler and Whitworth had stayed which is a form of hindsight that we can't go back and change, so to me a 1st round pick redo is similar as a hindsight topic to discuss.

Just a different way to think about things.

Meanwhile, we have what is actually going on also to discuss. We have John Ross and Zeitler & Whitworth are gone.

I sometimes try to escape what is actually going on with "what if" topics maybe to lessen the boredom or as a coping mechanism. 

Ross was absolutely a luxury pick and a guy drafted largely off of his 40 yard dash time. People will argue that he was a good college WR and I don't dispute that but had he ran a slower 40 yard time he was likely a 2nd Round pick.

I went back and forth on it at the draft and I really liked Foster. Had I been running the Bengals, he was my pick. I liked Dalvin Cook 2nd best.

Mixon, while I think is very talented...I would have drafted Robinson in the 2nd. The trade up and get Elflein the C from OSU in the 3rd. (He went several picks before us.) Then draft Lawson and Willis still.

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 03:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ross was absolutely a luxury pick and a guy drafted largely off of his 40 yard dash time. People will argue that he was a good college WR and I don't dispute that but had he ran a slower 40 yard time he was likely a 2nd Round pick.

I went back and forth on it at the draft and I really liked Foster. Had I been running the Bengals, he was my pick. I liked Dalvin Cook 2nd best.

Mixon, while I think is very talented...I would have drafted Robinson in the 2nd. The trade up and get Elflein the C from OSU in the 3rd. (He went several picks before us.) Then draft Lawson and Willis still.

So Reuben Foster in round 1.
Offensive tackle Cam Robinson went to the Jaguars & Tom Coughlin was likely behind that pick which is a good sign for Robinson. I think he is the starting Left tackle and that looks like a solid move to possibly Redo. Zimmer got Center Pat Elflein and he could easily be an upgrade over Bodine.

Lawson & Willis have been fine picks.

Mixon would be the odd man out in your scenario as I see it.

I fear that John Ross will provide Marvin Jones type production, which isn't bad but not what a #9 overall pick in round one should garnish.
Hopefully Ross can surprise me to the upside and stay healthy.

There are no right and wrong answers here to me. Just food for thought. Each move has Pros and Cons with say Deshaun Watson or Ross or any other move. Risks and possible rewards of differing types.

Your scenario would have definitely helped reduce the effects of losing Whitworth and Zeitler by having more O-line competition & likely 2 starters.

I think Mike Brown saw it as having already invested a 1st rounder in Cedric and a 2nd in Fisher, then expecting the Coaches to make his investment pay off. Plus having the O-line coach assure him it will pay off.

They are All In on who they have now with an Uphill climb to make.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 04:25 PM)depthchart Wrote: So Reuben Foster in round 1.
Offensive tackle Cam Robinson went to the Jaguars & Tom Coughlin was likely behind that pick which is a good sign for Robinson. I think he is the starting Left tackle and that looks like a solid move to possibly Redo. Zimmer got Center Pat Elflein and he could easily be an upgrade over Bodine.

Lawson & Willis have been fine picks.

Mixon would be the odd man out in your scenario as I see it.

I fear that John Ross will provide Marvin Jones type production, which isn't bad but not what a #9 overall pick in round one should garnish.
Hopefully Ross can surprise me to the upside and stay healthy.

There are no right and wrong answers here to me. Just food for thought. Each move has Pros and Cons with say Deshaun Watson or Ross or any other move. Risks and possible rewards of differing types.

Your scenario would have definitely helped reduce the effects of losing Whitworth and Zeitler by having more O-line competition & likely 2 starters.

I think Mike Brown saw it as having already invested a 1st rounder in Cedric and a 2nd in Fisher, then expecting the Coaches to make his investment pay off. Plus having the O-line coach assure him it will pay off.

They are All In on who they have now with an Uphill climb to make.

Yes. I think in my scenario it turns into either Elflein or Robinson because there was no way to know that Elflein would fall.

We may have been able to get Mixon in the 3rd Round. He had 2nd Round talent, but the character issue was a big PR hit that a lot of teams wouldn't take.

So it could have been Foster/Elflein or Robinson/Mixon/Lawson.

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 04:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. I think in my scenario it turns into either Elflein or Robinson because there was no way to know that Elflein would fall.

We may have been able to get Mixon in the 3rd Round. He had 2nd Round talent, but the character issue was a big PR hit that a lot of teams wouldn't take.

So it could have been Foster/Elflein or Robinson/Mixon/Lawson.

Had the Bengals taken Reuben Foster, how do you think that would impact Burfict in your scenario.

Would you have wanted Foster to replace Burfict or team them up together longer term by re-signing Burfict ?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 04:49 PM)depthchart Wrote: Had the Bengals taken Reuben Foster, how do you think that would impact Burfict in your scenario.

Would you have wanted Foster to replace Burfict or team them up together longer term by re-signing Burfict ?

Team them together and retain Burfict.

I think our defense would have been insanely talented.

[depthchart]

(10-02-2017, 04:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Team them together and retain Burfict.

I think our defense would have been insanely talented.

The Superbowl 49er team had some elite linebackers in 2012.

Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Aldon Smith & Ahmad Brooks.

They were Brutal.

Burfict & Foster together would have been cool to see.

[sandwedge]

Except Foster has been injured and Cook tore his ACL yesterday... This is all fun but you don't get to go back and redo it.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(10-02-2017, 02:39 PM)Browns Town Bengal Wrote: What has John Ross contributed so far?   One reverse with subsequent fumble?  Looking like a super bust

Yeah man. 1 nfl game and he's already looking like a bust.

Just like a lot of other couch potato coaches saying Dennard is a bust, but he's playing good ball now ain't he. 

Name a bunch of guys who the Bengals should have drafted, and I can probably tell you why they chose to not draft those players. An offensive lineman would have been a terrible reach, so that rules out those players.