Aj mccarron/Jeremy hill

[Andy2AJ]

With the season possibly on the line Sunday, when do we trade 1 or both of these guys? What should we expect in return for them? I had heard we were offered a few weeks ago a 2nd round pick for aj but turned it down.
With the way gio has been playing and mixon looking good hill looks like possible trade bait since he is going into FA also.

If we win on Sunday we have to move one or both as we will lose them at the end of the year anyways. If we can go out and get someone who can help the O-line now and get a draft pick for the other, we need to do it. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are and if hill will also get traded, as mccarron is a no brainer as you have to get something out of him. I understand driskel is hurt but you could call kitna at age 50 if something were to happen to dalton.

[*Nately120*]

I could see the Packers giving us something for Hill (something low), but I don't know which team would need a QB badly enough to give that 1st rounder Mike Brown has deemed McCarron to be worth.

[sloSTI]

I don't know who the Vikings have as a backup, but with Cook going down, they could also be in the running for Hill.

[Andy2AJ]

(10-02-2017, 11:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I could see the Packers giving us something for Hill (something low), but I don't know which team would need a QB badly enough to give that 1st rounder Mike Brown has deemed McCarron to be worth.

I agree with you, but we are letting time slip away, you can't just let the guy walk. Last year, we were expecting to trade him for a first round guy, now they need to trade him or hill for someone that will help this year if we expect to advance further past 16 games. Hopefully we can through Marvin in for a pick to be named later

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2017, 11:30 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: I agree with you, but we are letting time slip away, you can't just let the guy walk. Last year, we were expecting to trade him for a first round guy, now they need to trade him or hill for someone that will help this year if we expect to advance further past 16 games. Hopefully we can through Marvin in for a pick to be named later

Meh, Mike Brown is the GM and the owner and he can't be fired so he mostly certainly CAN just let the guy walk.  I can't read Mike Brown's mind but his actions lead me to believe he's not going to bother trading him for less than a 1st round pick and then letting him walk in FA and getting a comp pick. There is always that defense that we are one hit away from losing Dalton for a few games or the season and we'll need McCarron to step in and steer the ship, so we can't just trade him for anything less than the holy grail and a Faberge Egg.

I'm skeptical we could trade Hill for much of anything much less a player who could make an immediate impact this season.  It's just not like us to make big moves like this.  That stuff is for teams that have HC's and GMs that are worried about losing their jobs and don't care what happens to the franchise after they are fired.

[Andy2AJ]

(10-02-2017, 11:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, Mike Brown is the GM and the owner and he can't be fired so he mostly certainly CAN just let the guy walk.  I can't read Mike Brown's mind but his actions lead me to believe he's not going to bother trading him for less than a 1st round pick and then letting him walk in FA and getting a comp pick. There is always that defense that we are one hit away from losing Dalton for a few games or the season and we'll need McCarron to step in and steer the ship, so we can't just trade him for anything less than the holy grail and a Faberge Egg.

I'm skeptical we could trade Hill for much of anything much less a player who could make an immediate impact this season.  It's just not like us to make big moves like this.  That stuff is for teams that have HC's and GMs that are worried about losing their jobs and don't care what happens to the franchise after they are fired.

Is it too late for Mikey and tom petty to trade places? By far the worst owner in football. He doesn't fire anyone nor does he do anything in his power to make the team better. If Aaron Hernandez were still alive, Mikey would be appealing his murder conviction and paying him to sit in jail because he cares so damn much. As for mccarron, we saw him play well enough to win a playoff game. He could be tom Brady in the waiting, but at the same time Ryan leaf. With the bengals luck he will be more like Brady. Look at our kicking situation we cut a guy that hits a 61 yard to win a game meanwhile, our kicker misses a big kick that would of beat Green Bay. Damned if we do, damned if we don't

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 11:28 PM)sloSTI Wrote: I don't know who the Vikings have as a backup, but with Cook going down, they could also be in the running for Hill.

They have Murray from the Raiders who they pay $5 million a year and Jerrick McKinnon.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2017, 11:30 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: I agree with you, but we are letting time slip away, you can't just let the guy walk. Last year, we were expecting to trade him for a first round guy, now they need to trade him or hill for someone that will help this year if we expect to advance further past 16 games. Hopefully we can through Marvin in for a pick to be named later

In season trades are rare. The Bengals have no interest in trading McCarron this year.

As far as Hill? His value is low. 6th or 7th Round pick. Then IF Mixon or Bernard get hurt, what do you do?

[Aquapod770]

(10-03-2017, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They have Murray from the Raiders who they pay $5 million a year and Jerrick McKinnon.

Both better backs than Hill. 

[Luvnit2]

(10-02-2017, 11:30 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: I agree with you, but we are letting time slip away, you can't just let the guy walk. Last year, we were expecting to trade him for a first round guy, now they need to trade him or hill for someone that will help this year if we expect to advance further past 16 games. Hopefully we can through Marvin in for a pick to be named later

It all depends on the offer. Hill likely brings a 5th round pick if he leaves via free agency. Any offer less than a 5th is not a good deal for us unless they just want to save money by not paying Hill the rest of 2017. Also, we have 3 RB's, so not sure I a want to go down to 2 RB's for nothing in return, it is a long season.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-03-2017, 01:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It all depends on the offer. Hill likely brings a 5th round pick if he leaves via free agency. Any offer less than a 5th is not a good deal for us unless they just want to save money by not paying Hill the rest of 2017. Also, we have 3 RB's, so not sure I a want to go down to 2 RB's for nothing in return, it is a long season.

Good points made, but one thing was left out in the bolded. If losing Hill constitutes a compensatory pick, it would not be until the 2019 draft. If a trade is done, I would hope/expect the traded pick to be for 2018. May not make much difference though if there's no sense of urgency to win.

[Shake n Blake]

Here's why I think Mike Brown values McCarron so much:

Bruce Gradkowski - 3 years, $5 million (his 2013 contract with the Steelers...I couldn't find details on his Bengals contract)
Jason Campbell - 1 year, $1.5 million
AJ McCarron - 4 years, $2.4 million (600k average)

Plus you have to consider that even backup QB salaries have been on the rise.

So not only does he get a backup at a great discount, he also gets another sweet compensatory pick when McCarron's deal is up.

Sure, trading Mac could help the team now, but Mike has always placed heavy value on bargains. Just look at how we've approached FA through the years. Mostly signing 1st round busts or questionable characters. Mike's love for bargains has shaped this team through the years and just goes to show that his influence is still pretty strong, despite all the talk that he backed off.

[BengalChris]

(10-02-2017, 11:23 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: With the season possibly on the line Sunday, when do we trade 1 or both of these guys? What should we expect in return for them? I had heard we were offered a few weeks ago a 2nd round pick for aj but turned it down.
With the way gio has been playing and mixon looking good hill looks like possible trade bait since he is going into FA also.

If we win on Sunday we have to move one or both as we will lose them at the end of the year anyways. If we can go out and get someone who can help the O-line now and get a draft pick for the other, we need to do it. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are and if hill will also get traded, as mccarron is a no brainer as you have to get something out of him. I understand driskel is hurt but you could call kitna at age 50 if something were to happen to dalton.

I can just hear Mike Brown now, "you are missing the bigger picture. Think comp picks. We love comp picks. Why take a 2nd round pick when we can get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick?

[The Caped Crusader]

With our offensive line performance this year, I don't trade AJ. I honestly think that MIGHT factor into him STILL being here.

Hill? I'm taking anywhere from 3-5th round pick for him. The three headed running back system doesn't make sense, on any time. Mixon needs to start, with Bernard getting 35% of the carries. Bernard is at best, not when he is a work horse, but when he has 100% afterburners to go. Let Mixon, fresh legs, abuse defenses.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-02-2017, 11:23 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: With the season possibly on the line Sunday, when do we trade 1 or both of these guys? What should we expect in return for them? I had heard we were offered a few weeks ago a 2nd round pick for aj but turned it down.
With the way gio has been playing and mixon looking good hill looks like possible trade bait since he is going into FA also.

If we win on Sunday we have to move one or both as we will lose them at the end of the year anyways. If we can go out and get someone who can help the O-line now and get a draft pick for the other, we need to do it. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are and if hill will also get traded, as mccarron is a no brainer as you have to get something out of him. I understand driskel is hurt but you could call kitna at age 50 if something were to happen to dalton.

We won't get anything for Hill and McCarron is worth more as a back up right now.  I find it amazing that the NFL has dragged its feet (maybe I shouldn't) on McCarron's grievance about his FA status after the season.  The Bengals are really handcuffed until they know the result of that decision. 

[Luvnit2]

(10-03-2017, 02:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Here's why I think Mike Brown values McCarron so much:

Bruce Gradkowski - 3 years, $5 million (his 2013 contract with the Steelers...I couldn't find details on his Bengals contract)
Jason Campbell - 1 year, $1.5 million
AJ McCarron - 4 years, $2.4 million (600k average)

Plus you have to consider that even backup QB salaries have been on the rise.

So not only does he get a backup at a great discount, he also gets another sweet compensatory pick when McCarron's deal is up.

Sure, trading Mac could help the team now, but Mike has always placed heavy value on bargains. Just look at how we've approached FA through the years. Mostly signing 1st round busts or questionable characters. Mike's love for bargains has shaped this team through the years and just goes to show that his influence is still pretty strong, despite all the talk that he backed off.

You state MB getting bargains as a bad thing. It would be if he was like the Browns and other teams that spend 40 million a year less than the Bengals. MB spends money so quit the attck of him being cheap, he is one of the smallest market team owners, yet spends more than a lot of NFL owners looking at it year over year.

Also, AJ is a backup QB who was developed and drafted by us. He signed a contract so no different than those who sign deals that benefit the individual player like Hall and others had, MB honors all contracts good (for team) and bad (only good for the player) so he is consistent.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-04-2017, 11:13 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You state MB getting bargains as a bad thing. It would be if he was like the Browns and other teams that spend 40 million a year less than the Bengals. MB spends money so quit the attck of him being cheap, he is one of the smallest market team owners, yet spends more than a lot of NFL owners looking at it year over year.

Also, AJ is a backup QB who was developed and drafted by us. He signed a contract so no different than those who sign deals that benefit the individual player like Hall and others had, MB honors all contracts good (for team) and bad (only good for the player) so he is consistent.

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth and creating strawmen to argue against. My real opinion is that some of the bargains actually are good for the team, but that constant mindset of looking for bargains in free agency and overvaluing of compensatory picks can also limit our options.

We've missed out on the opportunity to capitalize on a very talented core by ignoring quality talent while in search of bargain bin free agents. It also seems we've been more inclined to let some key players go because of the compensatory pick thing.

Basically, I think this approach would be good in moderation, but the Bengals seem to adhere to those methods religiously. I think it's obvious we're seeing the downfall of Mike's passive and frugal approach to FA right now. We still have a talented core, but the o-line has been severely neglected and the team is now 7-12-1 in their last 20 games. So we never got over the hump and now we're regressing.

Since you seem to disagree, what do you think went wrong?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-04-2017, 12:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're putting a lot of words in my mouth and creating strawmen to argue against. My real opinion is that some of the bargains actually are good for the team, but that constant mindset of looking for bargains in free agency and overvaluing of compensatory picks can also limit our options.

We've missed out on the opportunity to capitalize on a very talented core by ignoring quality talent while in search of bargain bin free agents. It also seems we've been more inclined to let some key players go because of the compensatory pick thing.

Basically, I think this approach would be good in moderation, but the Bengals seem to adhere to those methods religiously. I think it's obvious we're seeing the downfall of Mike's passive and frugal approach to FA right now. We still have a talented core, but the o-line has been severely neglected and the team is now 7-12-1 in their last 20 games. So we never got over the hump and now we're regressing.

Since you seem to disagree, what do you think went wrong?

Ahh you got hit with the classic counter: Using the Browns free agency tendencies as an example and therefore it must be bad. The reality is that none of us advocate having terrible drafts and trying to build a team in free agency. I would argue that when you've had good drafts and have a good roster, THAT is the time to address those remaining 1 or 2 weaknesses.

Like the year we were 12-4. How great would Alex Mack at Center be on that team? Maybe we would have actually been able to run the ball.

The Steelers are in a similar market size to us. This year they had less cap space than us and:
1) Extended Brown
2) Extended DeCastro
3) Extended Tuitt
4) Franchise tagged Bell
5) Signed Haden

When you have an above average team to good team, you're competing against other teams that invest all of their financial resources into winning to try to make it to the top. The NFL is the ultimate league of parity with some 23 different teams appearing in a Super Bowl since we last won a playoff game.

And with revenue sharing in the NFL and a hard salary cap, the small market excuse doesn't fly like it does in a sport like baseball.

Like this year - The team had some $21 million in cap space before signing Andre Smith. They let Zeitler and Whitworth walk. They could have tagged one. According to Lapham they offered Zeitler $5.5 million a year AFTER DeCastro signed for $10 million a year. IF true, and I assume Lapham would be in the know...that's cheap.

But, with that $21 million cap space, maybe they go out and sign a Guard that costs say $7-8 million a year? Maybe they let Whitworth go and sign a younger Tackle knowing that Ced is bad or bring in a guy to compete. Instead they brought Smith in to be a Guard. The Bengals simply put don't value the Guard and Center positions.

How many years have we had a bad center here? Seemingly going back to Braham. That's never been addressed in free agency.

The proof is ultimately in the pudding. Some 23 teams have appeared in a Super Bowl since the Bengals last won a single playoff game. 26+ years. It's clear that their strategy needs tweaking.

[*psychdoctor*]

The window to trade AJ McCarron is closed for now. The Cincinnati Bengals would be lucky to get a bag of salt for Jeremy Hill.

Sorry fans these two players are not going anywhere and the Bengals unless something drastically happens will get nothing in return (except compensation picks).

[THE PISTONS]

(10-05-2017, 11:57 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The window to trade AJ McCarron is closed for now.  The Cincinnati Bengals would be lucky to get a bag of salt for Jeremy Hill.

Sorry fans these two players are not going anywhere and the Bengals unless something drastically happens will get nothing in return (except compensation picks).

The Bengals were never going to trade McCarron...let me count the ways.

1) Insurance for an injury to Dalton
2) He's a cheap backup. Trade him and they'd likely not be comfortable with Driskell and need to pay a backup to come in that costed more money.
3) Comp Pick when he leaves!!!!! Why trade him for a 2nd Round pick when you can keep him, save a couple million and get a 3rd or 4th Round Comp Pick.
4) The market for him around the league isn't that great.