Defense wins Championships

[*bengalfan74*]

How many times you heard that ? Thousands for sure, and I think there's a good bit of truth in it. Right now we have the #2 defense in yards. #2 defense against the pass, and we're 2nd in sacks with 18. It's a passing league right ?

We've got a pretty good defense ! I'd say it's pretty safe to say we'll end up the season in the top ten in the league, perhaps in top 5 ? Lawson is coming on strong as a force in the pass rush. Geno has 4 sacks, and a pleasant surprise is MJ playing in the interior with 3 ! Burfict is all over the place, Vigil is developing.

I believe this defense is only going to improve as the offense starts getting it together and staying on the field longer.

Question is, is this defense good enough to carry this team through the offensive struggles that still I'm pretty sure lie ahead ?

Can this team really reach the playoffs ?

[corpjet]

I agree, lets see if we can continue at this pace and hopefully our offense can stay on pace with our #LazorFocus

While I don't think we are the Ravens D that won it all with Trent Dilfer our offense isn't as inept as that one.

Should be an exciting 2/3 of the season left if our D continues at this pace...

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-11-2017, 08:36 AM)corpjet Wrote: I agree, lets see if we can continue at this pace and hopefully our offense can stay on pace with our #LazorFocus

While I don't think we are the Ravens D that won it all with Trent Dilfer our offense isn't as inept as that one.

Should be an exciting 2/3 of the season left if our D continues at this pace...

Exactly,

We're not the 2000 Ravens D. That was a defense that flat out dominated games ! 85 Bearsish. But we hopefully won't have to be.

I think we're tied for 2nd in scoring defense as well with 16.6

If the defense continues on I think we'll have a punchers chance.

[XenoMorph]

Speaking of Which is there any update on our Injured players? Kirkpatrick or Jones? Williams looked banged up too...

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2017, 08:49 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly,

We're not the 2000 Ravens D. That was a defense that flat out dominated games ! 85 Bearsish. But we hopefully won't have to be.

I think we're tied for 2nd in scoring defense as well with 16.6

If the defense continues on I think we'll have a punchers chance.

The Ravens could run the ball too. We are an absolutely bad running team that is bad at pass blocking too.

[XenoMorph]

(10-11-2017, 10:19 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Ravens could run the ball too. We are an absolutely bad running team that is bad at pass blocking too.

at the moment   OL seems to gel a little better every week..  Which cant be easy considering they are not all in the same spots for a whole game.

[*Go Cards*]

If WJIII turns into the elite CB I think he will become it would certainly help in defense carrying us.

But I do believe OL's help with winning championships in NFL as well.

Got along way to go in this department but making strides toward becoming better.

Because when those January playoff games arrive and the weather gets much colder it is more important.

This is where the steelers have the edge on us unfortunately.

But love the optimism and hope bear witness to it coming true.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2017, 01:09 PM)Go Cards Wrote: If WJIII turns into the elite CB I think he will become it would certainly help in defense carrying us.

But I do believe OL's help with winning championships in NFL as well.

Got along way to go in this department but making strides toward becoming better.

Because when those January playoff games arrive and the weather gets much colder it is more important.

This is where the steelers have the edge on us unfortunately.

But love the optimism and hope bear witness to it coming true.

In general you need a good offense and great defense or great offense and good defense to win a championship.

There are a few outliers in NFL history...but not many. And even the outliers had great running games.

[*Go Cards*]

(10-11-2017, 01:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In general you need a good offense and great defense or great offense and good defense to win a championship.

There are a few outliers in NFL history...but not many. And even the outliers had great running games.

Hence the fact that I said the OL matters in winning championships in the NFL. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-11-2017, 01:09 PM)Go Cards Wrote: If WJIII turns into the elite CB I think he will become it would certainly help in defense carrying us.

But I do believe OL's help with winning championships in NFL as well.

Got along way to go in this department but making strides toward becoming better.

Because when those January playoff games arrive and the weather gets much colder it is more important.

This is where the steelers have the edge on us unfortunately.

But love the optimism and hope bear witness to it coming true.

Maybe, just maybe the offense can just do enough while basically riding on the defenses coat tails ? 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2017, 03:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Maybe, just maybe the offense can just do enough while basically riding on the defenses coat tails ? 

Let's see how we do against teams in upcoming weeks before we talk about a championship.

We beat a historically bad Browns Team and a Bills team without their Top WR and TE...and it was a really close game.

IF we beat the Steelers, I'll entertain talk about the playoffs. Just remember, as bad as the Steelers are perceived to have played...they have a better record than us.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2017, 10:19 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Ravens could run the ball too. We are an absolutely bad running team that is bad at pass blocking too.

Bengals limited by their offensive rankings.
19th in pass yards per game (227)
28th in rush yards per game (84)
23rd in total yards per game (311)
27th in points per game (16.8)

However, we should probably just consider the Lazor era only, which would be the last 3 games...
pass yards per game = 275.3
rush yards per game = 87
total yards per game = 362.3
points per game = 22.7 (I took out the points scored by the pick 6 against GB, so actually this number would be higher if going off pure PPG not just offensive PPG)

If we had those same averages across the entire season, the Bengals would be ranked....
PYPG = 5th
RYPG = 27th
TYPG = 9th
PPG = 14th

So yea, the running game definitely needs to get going but the passing game has improved a ton. Since Lazor became OC, the Bengals have had a top-10 aerial attack and middle-of-the-pack scoring. That's (much) better than I expected for this season with Zampese as OC. Worth mentioning too that these passing numbers are not inflated from the Bengals having to play catch-up either. They are while leading a vast majority during the last 3 games.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-11-2017, 08:49 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly,

We're not the 2000 Ravens D. That was a defense that flat out dominated games ! 85 Bearsish. But we hopefully won't have to be.

I think we're tied for 2nd in scoring defense as well with 16.6

If the defense continues on I think we'll have a punchers chance.

Interesting read on why maybe Ravens D in 2000 was not considered with some other great defenses to some

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1205734-why-the-2000-ravens-defense-isnt-one-of-the-best-of-all-time 

[Beaker]

(10-11-2017, 08:05 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Question is,

1. Is this defense good enough to carry this team through the offensive struggles that still I'm pretty sure lie ahead ?

2. Can this team really reach the playoffs ?

1. no

2. yes, possible but not likely

[magikod]

If our offense can score 24+ points a game we can beat anyone.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2017, 05:15 PM)Beaker Wrote: 1. no

2. yes, possible but not likely

You're usually Mr. Optimism. Surprised by your answers.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

What's not normally said to finish the "Defense wins championships" statement is that you also need an effective run game in order to keep your defense from having to be on the field too much and keeping them from tiring out. Fresh defenses are better defenses.

'85 Bears:
Walter Payton.. 324 rushes/1,551 yards (4.8 AVG)/9 TD
Matt Suhey... 115 rushes/471 yards (4.1 AVG)/1 TD

'00 Ravens:
Jamal Lewis... 309 rushes/1,364 yards (4.4 AVG)/6 TD
Priest Holmes... 137 rushes/588 yards (4.3 AVG)/2 TD




'17 Bengals (projected):
Joe Mixon... 214.4 rushes/589.4 yards (2.8 AVG)/3.2 TD
Jeremy Hill... 92.8 rushes/313.6 yards (3.4 AVG)/0 TD

[ah5]

Defense wins championships is a load of bs, the team that scores the most does. That being said defense can most certainly win a championship.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-11-2017, 11:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What's not normally said to finish the "Defense wins championships" statement is that you also need an effective run game in order to keep your defense from having to be on the field too much and keeping them from tiring out. Fresh defenses are better defenses.

'85 Bears:
Walter Payton.. 324 rushes/1,551 yards (4.8 AVG)/9 TD
Matt Suhey... 115 rushes/471 yards (4.1 AVG)/1 TD

'00 Ravens:
Jamal Lewis... 309 rushes/1,364 yards (4.4 AVG)/6 TD
Priest Holmes... 137 rushes/588 yards (4.3 AVG)/2 TD




'17 Bengals (projected):
Joe Mixon... 214.4 rushes/589.4 yards (2.8 AVG)/3.2 TD
Jeremy Hill... 92.8 rushes/313.6 yards (3.4 AVG)/0 TD

Can Lazor and the Bengals use a different kind of running game to accomplish the same thing ? I mean it's obvious we're not gonna run between the tackles on most teams with any degree of success.

But how about a new version of the ORO/WCO ? Pass heavy to the RB's in space, screens, wheel routes etc. Mix in some draws and delayed draws. End arounds, reverses, misdirection with quick pitch to opposite side and so on.

Have a set where Gio and Mixon are both on the field using basically extended handoffs. Keeping the clock running most of the time.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2017, 11:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What's not normally said to finish the "Defense wins championships" statement is that you also need an effective run game in order to keep your defense from having to be on the field too much and keeping them from tiring out. Fresh defenses are better defenses.

'85 Bears:
Walter Payton.. 324 rushes/1,551 yards (4.8 AVG)/9 TD
Matt Suhey... 115 rushes/471 yards (4.1 AVG)/1 TD

'00 Ravens:
Jamal Lewis... 309 rushes/1,364 yards (4.4 AVG)/6 TD
Priest Holmes... 137 rushes/588 yards (4.3 AVG)/2 TD




'17 Bengals (projected):
Joe Mixon... 214.4 rushes/589.4 yards (2.8 AVG)/3.2 TD
Jeremy Hill... 92.8 rushes/313.6 yards (3.4 AVG)/0 TD

I'm not so sure the Defense Wins Championships phrase holds weight any more. There have been too many rule changes in the NFL. It's an offensive league.