So...

[Shake n Blake]

...the offense played well and ran the ball extremely well (evening out the TOP), yet our defense played like crap. Kinda blows a hole in the whole "offense is making the defense tired" narrative.

The defense has quietly been pretty rough looking for several weeks now. Let's hope they can get it together with the game of the season coming up.

[J24]

Defense is puzzling to me because I think they have the potential to be elite unit but for some reason they just can't get it together outside of the pass Rush. To me Guenther is by far the worst coach on this team because with the amount of Talent he has on his unit they seem to underperform on a weekly basis.

[Bilbo Saggins]

It seems as though they're having the opposite problem of what they used to have on D.  They now have good players on the d-line, but the secondary isn't looking great.  There were a couple of times where receivers were behind everyone but Kizer just missed the throw.  I'm wondering if Shaw and Fej are being worked in more to see if they can hack it as starters.

[treee]

We're going to have to start putting 8 guys in the box. You can't let teams gash you in the run game like we have. I think our corners are athletic enough to hack it with more single deep safety coverage. Plus, it lets you get more creative with disguising coverages anyway.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Kirkpatrick was a straight up liability out there.

[HarleyDog]

(11-27-2017, 06:12 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Kirkpatrick was a straight up liability out there.

I agree but feel he always has looked that way. I know next week we will see a lot of missed tackles and trying to dive into players instead of wrapping them up. Basic Bengal tackling. I fear it will be very bad.

[corpjet]

(11-27-2017, 04:54 AM)treee Wrote: We're going to have to start putting 8 guys in the box. You can't let teams gash you in the run game like we have. I think our corners are athletic enough to hack it with more single deep safety coverage. Plus, it lets you get more creative with disguising coverages anyway.

Don't know if we can leave our CBs in single coverage against Antonio Brown.......

[corpjet]

(11-27-2017, 06:12 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Kirkpatrick was a straight up liability out there.

Dre typically doesn't get beat deep but gives up everything under the sun underneath.....the deep throw and catch to Corey Coleman was a bit of a shock to me........almost like Dre gave up not thinking the ball was coming his way.....

[CJD]

Our defense is average.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves.

It is good enough to win games and, on occasion, the defense can take over games (especially if the pass rush can abuse bad tackles), but the coverage in the middle of the field is still trash (as it always has been) and our safeties are a lot worse than they get credit for.

Also, our rushing defense is atrocious. And we don't cause many turnovers...

The one thing keeping this defense alive is their strong red zone defense efficiency. It makes up for a lot of their deficiencies. Allowing 3 straight first downs on easy 8 yard passes to the tight end doesn't look so bad when, once they get to the red zone, the defense tightens up and only allows 3 points.

Bengals are 26th in the NFL in opponent red zone attempts per game (3.5 red zone attempts per game), but 1st in preventing touchdowns in the red zone (39.47%)
(https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-red-zone-scoring-attempts-per-game)

I just wish they'd prevent teams from getting to the red zone to begin with...

[*michaelsean*]

(11-27-2017, 10:05 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Our defense is average.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves.

It is good enough to win games and, on occasion, the defense can take over games (especially if the pass rush can abuse bad tackles), but the coverage in the middle of the field is still trash (as it always has been) and our safeties are a lot worse than they get credit for.

Also, our rushing defense is atrocious. And we don't cause many turnovers...

The one thing keeping this defense alive is their strong red zone defense efficiency. It makes up for a lot of their deficiencies. Allowing 3 straight first downs on easy 8 yard passes to the tight end doesn't look so bad when, once they get to the red zone, the defense tightens up and only allows 3 points.

Bengals are 26th in the NFL in opponent red zone attempts per game (3.5 red zone attempts per game), but 1st in preventing touchdowns in the red zone (39.47%)
(https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-red-zone-scoring-attempts-per-game)

I just wish they'd prevent teams from getting to the red zone to begin with...

People think it's OK to give up a lot of yards if you don't give up too many points, but you are also giving up field position. Forcing  a three and out on the 25 can do wonders for your offense.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2017, 02:53 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Defense is puzzling to me because I think they have the potential to be elite unit but for some reason they just can't get it together outside of the pass Rush. To me Guenther is by far the worst coach on this team because with the amount of Talent he has on his unit they seem to underperform on  a weekly basis.

Yeah...with a good pass rush...it should make the coverage's life easier. For some reason that doesn't happen here.

Kind of strange really.

Here's the issues I think:

Jones and Kirkpatrick grade out really bad. Jackson should be starting. Dennard should be a Top 3 CB. Jones should be the 4th CB.

Williams and Fej are both Below Average. Iloka is Average. We really need a better pass coverage safety.

Vigil is HORRIBLE. He grades out at 35.5 on PFF. That's a lower grade than Ced or Bodine or any of those guys at their worst. Burfict, Rey, and Minter are all Average to Above Average guys.

Then, Billings or Sims or whoever is next to Geno grades out at Poor also.

[grampahol]

Well, we asked for it and we got it..pass rush in exchange for piss poor pass coverage and no run stopping..
I remember when our pass rush was so-so, but pass coverage was pretty darn good. We swapped that around and VOILA! 
After all, who wouldn't rather have sexy stats over winning any day? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2017, 06:12 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Kirkpatrick was a straight up liability out there.

Yep.....he's just not very good.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2017, 11:07 AM)grampahol Wrote: Well, we asked for it and we got it..pass rush in exchange for piss poor pass coverage and no run stopping..
I remember when our pass rush was so-so, but pass coverage was pretty darn good. We swapped that around and VOILA! 
After all, who wouldn't rather have sexy stats over winning any day? 

If only they had used DreK's money to ink Whit or Zeitler and let WJIII play.  

Kirkpatrick and Jones are a lot of the ills in coverage.....and safety play has been pretty bad as well.  Reggie who?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2017, 11:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: If only they had used DreK's money to ink Whit or Zeitler and let WJIII play.  

Kirkpatrick and Jones are a lot of the ills in coverage.....and safety play has been pretty bad as well.  Reggie who?

Exactly. Start playing Jackson and Dennard and we get better.

And also bench Vigil. He's the worst starter on our team. A 35.5 on PFF is beyond Horrible. Rey, Minter, and Burfict grade out strong. Heck, start Evans instead of Vigil and we improve some.

Ray-Ray Armstrong just got released by the 49ers. He'd be a huge upgrade to Vigil too.

[XenoMorph]

(11-27-2017, 03:12 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: It seems as though they're having the opposite problem of what they used to have on D.  They now have good players on the d-line, but the secondary isn't looking great.  There were a couple of times where receivers were behind everyone but Kizer just missed the throw.  I'm wondering if Shaw and Fej are being worked in more to see if they can hack it as starters.

well Dennard and shawn Williams are hurt... which probly plays a big role into it.  they like Fej especially on special teams

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-27-2017, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Exactly. Start playing Kirkpatrick and Dennard and we get better.

And also bench Vigil. He's the worst starter on our team. A 35.5 on PFF is beyond Horrible. Rey, Minter, and Burfict grade out strong. Heck, start Evans instead of Vigil and we improve some.

Ray-Ray Armstrong just got released by the 49ers. He'd be a huge upgrade to Vigil too.

I'd say you'll get your wish Monday.  I don't know how bad Vinny Rey is injured, but that ankle roll Vigil sustained looked pretty damn brutal.  He may not be available.

[*bfine32*]

We held Cleveland to 16 points while sacking the QB 4 times. It's amazing while some people will consider "playing like crap".

The Defense has out played the offense all year. Folks trying to make one game into a trend are just being silly and petty.

We played well on Offense yesterday and I hope it continues. Oline must have suddenly gotten better.

[*bfine32*]

(11-27-2017, 06:12 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Kirkpatrick was a straight up liability out there.

FWIW, PFF had Dre rated at 81.7 yesterday. Our 4th highest grade on the team. 

[firstand10]

You have to remember that Cleveland still has to get it's first win of the season. So any defense or offense would look good ! Let's see what the rest of the season shows!