Fixing this Trainwreck

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-06-2017, 01:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why do we think Katie will be some great owner/GM? She's been with the Bengals her entire career and no other NFL Teams. Do we really expect her to do things that differently?

IF say the Steelers had a GM vacancy, would she be interviewed and considered? IF any GM vacancy opened, would she be considered?

The only true way to fix this train wreck is for Mike Brown to really step away.

Then all we can hope is that Katie and Co. are smart enough to hire a real GM who'll bring in an entire new coaching staff. Anything much less is just gonna be lipstick on a pig.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-06-2017, 02:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The only true way to fix this train wreck is for Mike Brown to really step away.

Then all we can hope is that Katie and Co. are smart enough to hire a real GM who'll bring in an entire new coaching staff. Anything much less is just gonna be lipstick on a pig.

Honestly...as currently managed the best we can hope for is getting hot every once in a while and maybe winning a playoff game or 2.

We're not going to see sustained success year after year for a while where we rack up like 7-8 playoff wins and a Super Bowl or two.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-06-2017, 01:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why do we think Katie will be some great owner/GM? She's been with the Bengals her entire career and no other NFL Teams. Do we really expect her to do things that differently? IF say the Steelers had a GM vacancy, would she be interviewed and considered? IF any GM vacancy opened, would she be considered?

I don't think she'll be a great GM. I do think she's smart enough to know she needs to hire one, though.

Another thing, has she been involved in player personnel discussions at all? I know she does the negotiating for the contracts, but does she sit with her dad and the coaches and discuss player needs, player evaluations and what not? I get this feeling that she doesn't. If so, I don't think she would call herself a GM and instead would hire one.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-06-2017, 03:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't think she'll be a great GM. I do think she's smart enough to know she needs to hire one, though.

Another thing, has she been involved in player personnel discussions at all? I know she does the negotiating for the contracts, but does she sit with her dad and the coaches and discuss player needs, player evaluations and what not? I get this feeling that she doesn't. If so, I don't think she would call herself a GM and instead would hire one.

Who knows? When we had some good drafts there was speculation that they were because of her. Now that we haven't you don't hear as much.

I have no clue.

[Jpoore]

(12-06-2017, 11:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What exactly does Guenther do so great? They play weak zone defense and allow 4th quarter scores a lot. The loss to the Steelers was just as much about the defense as the offense.

We're in the top 5-7 defense every year. And he plays his best players unlike Marvin.

[Steve]

(12-05-2017, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

My main theme would be to make the team more physical and tougher.

1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football. He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy. There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

I agree w/ your plan in general....
I know zip about Matt Patricia....
I was leaning toward the Pats  OC Josh M.

something has to be done.....at least your plan makes sense...
probably a better plan than what we'll actually get....

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2017, 08:22 PM)Jpoore Wrote: We're in the top 5-7 defense every year. And he plays his best players unlike Marvin.

Does he play the best players? Jackson and Dennard should clearly be playing over Jones/Kirkpatrick.

Michael Johnson is playing DE over Willis.

Vigil played all year over Evans.

I think the defense is the poster child of more talented players sitting. On offense, you could only potentially point at Ross...but the rub is I don't think he's shown much in practice...and we know they're playing rookies like Malone and Mixon so it isn't a rookie thing.

[Interceptor]

Fixing? This team is beyond repair. Demolition is required for the entire infrastructure. This organization is infected with the seeds of defeat and until that is all wiped away or incinerated, there is nothing that will improve this team. There should be nothing left that was part of or even remotely resembles the Mikey/Marv era. Nothing....

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2017, 11:57 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Fixing? This team is beyond repair. Demolition is required for the entire infrastructure. This organization is infected with the seeds of defeat and until that is all wiped away or incinerated, there is nothing that will improve this team. There should be nothing left that was part of or even remotely resembles the Mikey/Marv era. Nothing....

I sadly agree with you.

Our window will open slightly when Roethlisberger retires...but the Steelers will get a QB fairly quick and improve.

[*psychdoctor*]

Nothing can be fixed about the Bengal organization unless Mike Brown fully steps down. He is the problem.

I do believe that Katie will do a better job if her father is totally out of the picture. I think Katie is headstrong has more discipline and less tolerance for inappropriate behavior.

[Big Boss]

1) Mike Brown resigns and hands over the keys to the franchise to Katie and Troy.
2) Katie and Troy promote Duke Tobin to an official general manager position. Give him 4 years in the role and reevaluate after that.
3) Lure Jim Harbaugh away from Michigan. Give him complete control over his staff and roster.
4) Hire a couple more scouts (Hell, I'd literally take two more at this point). Just do something here.
5) Draft by scheme, need and fit. Not by BPA.
6) Stop trying to build through the draft alone. Be more active in free agency.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2017, 11:50 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Nothing can be fixed about the Bengal organization unless Mike Brown fully steps down.  He is the problem.  

I do believe that Katie will do a better job if her father is totally out of the picture.  I think Katie is headstrong has more discipline and less tolerance for inappropriate behavior.

Honestly, what evidence do you have that Katie and Troy will be better?

Nobody knows what's going on in the Bengals organization.

[Big Boss]

(12-08-2017, 12:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, what evidence do you have that Katie and Troy will be better?

Nobody knows what's going on in the Bengals organization.

We don't know if they'd be worse either.

Plus, we don't even know how interested Katie and Troy are in actually running the franchise.  They may be perfectly happy with hiring an official general manager and just sitting back and making money.  

[BenZoo2]

I can see Marvin not being brought back and ebenezer talking up the positive outlook with a new voice. This diverts attention from the fact that come hell or high water he will not deviate from his plan. The one that has worked so well for nearly 30 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jpoore]

(12-07-2017, 11:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Does he play the best players? Jackson and Dennard should clearly be playing over Jones/Kirkpatrick.

Michael Johnson is playing DE over Willis.

Vigil played all year over Evans.

I think the defense is the poster child of more talented players sitting. On offense, you could only potentially point at Ross...but the rub is I don't think he's shown much in practice...and we know they're playing rookies like Malone and Mixon so it isn't a rookie thing.

Jackson and dennard do play over Jones. Dre k is more Lewis bc he's the high priced man. Mj is our only good run defender otherwise Lawson would be starting there. And vigil is gonna be an amazing lb but u have to have snaps to do it. He's had some great games. But he came from the mountain west, so I believe it takes 2 years to get up to speed. And bigger question is why Evans isn't starting over minter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2017, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, we know that ownership and management won't change so the best we can hope for is a new coaching staff. We also know that we won't spend much in free agency.

So what realistically can we expect?

My main theme would be to make the team more physical and tougher.

1) Fire the entire coaching staff. Top to bottom. Clean house. Guenther too. We drastically need to change the culture. We're fighting history as much as we're fighting the other team here.

2) Hire Matt Patricia as the HC. He seems very adaptable with the Patriots and their defense doesn't have any stars. He also seems to understand how a roster fits together as a team...not just as a collection of players. I'd let him bring in his staff...I'd be ok with Hue Jackson being the OC. Guys need held accountable. We also need top coordinators.

3) Sign Guard Andrew Norwell (Give him $6 million a year if that's what it takes.) I know we won't sign a lot of free agents, so lets see one that counts.

4) Waive Adam Jones and Michael Johnson. Invest that money in other positions. We can't have guys on the roster not contributing at a high level.

5) Sign Center Ryan Jensen away from the Ravens. He grades as the #4 Center in football. He's making less than $2 million a year now. He's 26. Offer him $5-6 million a year if you have to. The benefit over drafting a Center is that you know he's ready to go.

6) Draft BPA out of Tackle, DT, LB, and Safety with our 1st and 2nd Round picks. We should have a shot at DT Christian Wilkens from Clemson who is a dominant DT who could be a HOF caliber guy. There are other LB's that are good here too. Whatever we do, we don't want to reach.

7) Sign a free agent LB with some experience. Minter was ok...but I'm not impressed. Perhaps a guy like Tahir Whitehead from the Lions. We definitely need to get tougher at LB aside from Burfict.

8) Try to draft another TE in maybe Round 3 and let Eifert go.

These changes should take us to the playoffs and hopefully allow us to win. With a new HC, he has 2-3 years to change the culture then it becomes stale.

Well yours is realistic in ways, i am going to hope that MB retires, Katie takes over and she hires a GM who...

1 - Hires Russ Grimm as the HC, fixed the Titans O-line, this guy here would coach this team into a physical run
blocking unit that can also pass protect. Not that i don't like Patricia, just like this guy better as he is Offensive
minded instead of another DC for our HC.

2 - Let Grimm hire his own staff. No need to fire anybody as has been spoken, all the coaches deals are up.

I like the rest of yours, i just like Grimm better than Patricia at this point.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-07-2017, 11:57 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Fixing? This team is beyond repair.

Shut up Doug dilly dilly

[*PhilHos*]

(12-08-2017, 12:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, what evidence do you have that Katie and Troy will be better?

Nobody knows what's going on in the Bengals organization.

Do you want Merv to be re-signed? If, as I suspect, you don't, what evidence do you have that a new head coach will be better?

To answer both questions: it's not that we know they will be better, it's that we already know that what we have doesn't work.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2017, 05:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Do you want Merv to be re-signed? If, as I suspect, you don't, what evidence do you have that a new head coach will be better?

To answer both questions: it's not that we know they will be better, it's that we already know that what we have doesn't work.

I think the time for Lewis to go was 2 years ago...but...look at the Bengals management teams record pre-Marvin and then after Marvin.

While we haven't won a SB...they totally were horrible before him.

I think that finding the right coach who can coach AND scout is more difficult than people think.

I just don't know that any coach will win a SB with a team that doesn't believe in using free agency that much.

[Jpoore]

Make Marvin and Tobin a co gm that would be great. Give Tobin the same responsibility he has now.