The Con of Hiring a Coach Fired By Another Team

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-21-2017, 11:44 AM)pally Wrote: Coaches who have been fired have gone on to win Super Bowls and coaches that have won Super Bowls have been fired. So in my mind we cannot immediately dismiss a potential coach because of a previous firing  There are plenty of situations that insiders are far more likely to have more details about than we fans do.  But I do hope we look outside the "family" for a new coach.  I think the team needs fresh eyes and ideas.

For sure and Jay can atleast do a decent job scouting as we saw with him wanting Dalton over Kaep and Mallett.

To me the crying over the scouting department really isn't something we can change. MB will have to step aside,
Katie would have to hire a GM that knows football and knows good scouts to improve this.

The one thing i might add is it doesn't matter who we get at coach if he has to inherit these terrible coaches we
still have here. PA, Haslett, Guenther, Coyle, Urban have all been bad this year and all need gone.

This next HC needs to be able to pick his own coaches, if he wants to keep around a couple guys like Lazor, Burney
and Simmons i am not against it. Just give the coach this opportunity.

[McC]

(12-21-2017, 04:48 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Pretty impressive list there.

Those are just the ones I can remember.  There are probably more.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I think we should look into KC's OC Matt Nagy. We don't need to take a Fired HC. Get an up and comer.

[HarleyDog]

(12-21-2017, 05:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah how about the Jim Mora's? John Fox's? Hue Jackson's? Mike Mularkey's?

Any coach will only go as far as the front office takes them here.

[Utts]

(12-21-2017, 10:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We need to find a coach who can take an average roster and improve it and take it to the next level. Not coaches who fail with an average roster...

Nobody is going to win championships with an average roster. The head coach is important, but you still need the talent and then the HC can help put you over the top.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We currently have 4 elite players on the roster Carlos Geno Burfict Green.People who could join that group Lawson Wjackson
Dalton iloka Ross Mixon You get the right coach this is a team built to win instantly. Someone to keep Burfict's emotions in check. Someone willing to scheme to our strengths and mask weaknesses. actually make adjustments at half time. Not mis manage clock at the end of games worse than 2nd grader.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-22-2017, 01:48 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: We currently have 4 elite players on the roster Carlos Geno Burfict Green.People who could join that group Lawson Wjackson
Dalton iloka Ross Mixon You get the right coach this is a team built to win instantly. Someone to keep Burfict's emotions in check. Someone willing to scheme to our strengths and mask weaknesses. actually make adjustments at half time. Not mis manage clock at the end of games worse than 2nd grader.

Atkins is the only Elite player we have.

Guys like Green, Dunlap, and Burfict are Good to Really Good most Sundays.

I do think that Lawson, Mixon, and Jackson could all join that Good to Really Good group one day...which is really nice.

Atkins and Dunlap are both free agents after this coming season. Green is a free agent in 2 years. We HAVE to keep those guys.

[Whatever]

(12-21-2017, 10:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think Jay Gruden would be about the best realistic coach we could get, BUT he's been 4-12, 9-7, 8-7-1, and 6-8 in Washington.

Hue Jackson has been 8-8, 1-15, and 0-14 as HC. His best year, the Raiders started 7-4 and finished 1-4.

You could explain away their poor performances on not having a QB, flawed rosters, etc.

But...they work for teams now that have a lot of scouts and use free agency.

Here...our roster isn't that great and THEY are going to have to be the ones that scout.

What I'm saying in a round about way is that they will have the SAME ISSUES here...maybe even worse. We need to find a coach who can take an average roster and improve it and take it to the next level. Not coaches who fail with an average roster...because our front office is not better than most teams in the league at acquiring talent.

IF we were say the Steelers or Patriots, a guy like Jay Gruden or Jackson could probably win there...but probably not here...at least consistently.

The Browns and Redskins have a lot of scouts and use free agency, but they aren't well ran teams by any stretch.  The Browns have been garbage for over a decade.  You can't even try to argue that the Browns are better at acquiring talent than the Bengals, despite their adherence to tenants held by many armchair GM's like "spend big in FA" and "trade down for more picks."

You can't dismiss a coach simply because he's a retread.  Look at how many retread coaches have won Super Bowls in recent years.  Bill Bellicheck failed with the Browns, and is now arguably the greatest HC in NFL history.  Jon Gruden won a SB with Tampa after coming coming up short in Oakland.  He replaced Tony Dungy, who won a ring with the Colts.  Tom Coughlin went from the Jags to the Giants and won two titles.  Gary Kubiak was a middling HC for the Texans, but broke through with the Broncos.  

[Steve]

(12-21-2017, 10:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think Jay Gruden would be about the best realistic coach we could get, BUT he's been 4-12, 9-7, 8-7-1, and 6-8 in Washington.

Hue Jackson has been 8-8, 1-15, and 0-14 as HC. His best year, the Raiders started 7-4 and finished 1-4.

You could explain away their poor performances on not having a QB, flawed rosters, etc.

But...they work for teams now that have a lot of scouts and use free agency.

Here...our roster isn't that great and THEY are going to have to be the ones that scout.

What I'm saying in a round about way is that they will have the SAME ISSUES here...maybe even worse. We need to find a coach who can take an average roster and improve it and take it to the next level. Not coaches who fail with an average roster...because our front office is not better than most teams in the league at acquiring talent.

IF we were say the Steelers or Patriots, a guy like Jay Gruden or Jackson could probably win there...but probably not here...at least consistently.

if you have a team w/ a weak O-line, like ours, who can win w/ that....??
imo, no coach ....
you have to have quality players....
we cant run the ball....A.D. runs for his life a lot....
you don't see this w/ the Pats or steelers b/c they have good O-lines....

whats a coach supposed to tell Dalton....ok Andy, drop back to pass....your gonna get chased out of the pocket....scramble around for a few seconds then throw a TD pass....
if our players suck no coach can win....
we have to fix the O-line or the coach doesn't matter....Lombardi couldn't win here now...
if the coach helped pick these guys......fire him !!!

[Steve]

(12-22-2017, 02:01 AM)Utts Wrote: Nobody is going to win championships with an average roster. The head coach is important, but you still need the talent and then the HC can help put you over the top.

BINGO.....
you have to have good players....
especially in the trenches.....

be like expecting to win a car race b/c your can has a nice paint job...
it's not about the paint....
it's all about the engine...

if ya have great trench players it's easy to run the ball....this sets up the pass....this moves the chains & puts points up on the board....
FIX THE O-LINE....
& the wins will come...

[CanadianBengal]

(12-21-2017, 02:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 'There could be a dispute brewing between Brown and his daughter and heir apparent, Bengals executive vice president Katie Blackburn, about who should be the franchise's ninth head coach. Brown apparently is sold on Coughlin; Blackburn is believed to be pushing Lewis, the Washington Redskins' defensive coordinator.'

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2003/01/09/bengals09.html

That was the story at the time. I have since read that Coughlin wanted additional shouts etc before he would sign and so they went with Marvin. Coughlin is pretty hard nosed. Probably couldn't work for Mike. The new coach will need to be someone who accepts the Bengal way