Jon Kitna interviewing for QB coach

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 03:43 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: No. It punishes garbage time stat padding and soft cover completions

Well, I get that, but some good QBs have played for some very bad teams, and put up good numbers despite it.  I like to look at YPC, YPA, Comp. %, TD-INT ratio, rushing numbers, and rating as to how good a QB is.  I just don't put much stock in QBR.  Seems like a last gasp effort for ESPN NFL coverage to remain relevant to me.

[*bfine32*]

I hate to interrupt the thread to talk about Kitna; however, I would love to have him as our QB coach. I've often wondered how we would have fared if we stuck with him and traded the 2003 #1 overall for a king's ransom.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 03:50 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Good guy, but good coach?!?!?! TBD for now but I do remember when Akili was around Kitna was interested in the clipboard and getting things done, so maybe he could be a good coach. Hoping for the best.

This picture pretty much exemplifies why Akili never cut the mustard.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-10-2018, 02:50 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: I guess passer rating is infallible in your mind

Nick Foles has the 2nd highest active passer rating season of all time. Lol.  Must be accurate.

QB rating is not infallible but it's far superior to the more SUBJECTIVE QBR bullshit stat.

As to Nick Foles, according to the lists I've seen, he doesn't even qualify. I've looked at 3 different websites and they all list the top 3 in active QB rating as Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Tom Brady. 

BTW, according to QBR, Case Keenum was the 2nd best QB in the league this season. 

(01-10-2018, 03:38 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: Because it also includes the importance of the specific game, the timing of the completion and first down, the pressure a qb was under in the situation, basically everything that the casual fan can’t compile.

So list the forumla. If it's such an infallible tool, list the formula so we can see how each game is judged, how each completion is weighted, how each first down is different from the others, how the pressure of the situation plays a hand in the end result, etc.

Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

[ElderStatesman]

(01-10-2018, 03:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Name all the games where Dalton padded his stats in garbage time this year.

Mind you we're not talking about a 3-13 team here. The Bengals went 7-9 with several close losses.

25 percent of this tds were vs the browns.

He also was terrible in clutch situations all seasons.

In high leverage situations, he was a wet blanket (pet the usual)

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: 25 percent of this tds were vs the browns.

He also was terrible in clutch situations all seasons.

In high leverage situations, he was a wet blanket (pet the usual)

Fred pretty much shot this down earlier in the thread.......


Hell, we won our last game with 53 seconds on the clock with a TD pass!

[HarleyDog]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: He also was terrible in clutch situations all seasons.

Buffalo would disagree.

[ElderStatesman]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: QB rating is not infallible but it's far superior to the more SUBJECTIVE QBR bullshit stat.

As to Nick Foles, according to the lists I've seen, he doesn't even qualify. I've looked at 3 different websites and they all list the top 3 in active QB rating as Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Tom Brady. 

BTW, according to QBR, Case Keenum was the 2nd best QB in the league this season. 


So list the forumla. If it's such an infallible tool, list the formula so we can see how each game is judged, how each completion is weighted, how each first down is different from the others, how the pressure of the situation plays a hand in the end result, etc.

Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

Nick Foles has the 2nd highest season passer rating for all active players

You don’t understand what this means and think it means career passer rating. Lol. This rocks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-10-2018, 03:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: But it doesn't account for a QB putting up much better stats in a much worse situation? 

Damn sure should, QBR is a joke.

TD's to ints, yards per attempt are much more important at the end of the day.

Yardage can also be a bit deceiving as QB's trying to catch up throw the ball more. They are desperate.

But then again Tom Brady leads the league in yardage so...

[*PhilHos*]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: 25 percent of this tds were vs the browns.

He also was terrible in clutch situations all seasons.

In high leverage situations, he was a wet blanket (pet the usual)

Why is that bad to throw TDs against the 14th ranked passing defense? 

[McC]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: 25 percent of this tds were vs the browns.

He also was terrible in clutch situations all seasons.

In high leverage situations, he was a wet blanket (pet the usual)

You didn't answer one thing about his question.  Give 'em a moving target, eh?

[Bengalbug]

(01-10-2018, 03:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hate to interrupt the thread to talk about Kitna; however, I would love to have him as our QB coach. I've often wondered how we would have fared if we stuck with him and traded the 2003 #1 overall for a king's ransom.

I often wonder what would have happened had we played palmer in 2003 when we realized at 1-4 (I believe) that it was a lost season. How would 2004 and 2005 played out differently? With a little experience I think bengals could have made playoffs in '04 and been better in '05 than they already were, maybe they get a bye and don't play the steelers.

[ElderStatesman]

(01-10-2018, 04:00 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Fred pretty much shot this down earlier in the thread.......


Hell, we won our last game with 53 seconds on the clock with a TD pass!

His second half passer rating was 73. His 4th quarter rating was 76

Yeah. Despite his fluke pass vs Baltimore too

[*PhilHos*]

(01-10-2018, 04:02 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: Nick Foles has the 2nd highest season passer rating for all active players

You don’t understand what this means and think it means career passer rating.  Lol. This rocks.

I apologize for misunderstanding that you were talking about a single season and not for one's career.

With that said, are you trying to say that a QB that throws for 2800+ yards at a 64% completion rate, 27 TDs to 2 INT, 9.1 yards per attempt in only 13 games (only 10 of which he started) had a bad season?

BTW, David Gerrard (as sure a Hall of Famer as there ever was, right?) had the 9th best season ever according to QBR. In 2007, David threw 2500+ yards, 18 TDs to 3 INTs, 7.7 yards per attempt in 12 games. David's 82.5 QBR blows Foles' 72 out of the water, doesn't it? Clearly, any rube can look at those stats and see that Gerrard had a WAY better season.

[sandwedge]

(01-10-2018, 04:21 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: His second half passer rating was 73.  His 4th quarter rating was 76

Yeah. Despite his fluke pass vs Baltimore too

"Fluke", now I know your're trolling.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 04:21 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: His second half passer rating was 73.  His 4th quarter rating was 76

Yeah. Despite his fluke pass vs Baltimore too

For this season?  I agree, but you said ALL seasons.......

[ElderStatesman]

(01-10-2018, 04:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: "Fluke", now I know your're trolling.....

4th and long. Defense playing for postseason

On the road.

There was a 99.5% chance Balt wins that game.

Haha. The fact you cant identify the luck of that play is astounding

[*bfine32*]

(01-10-2018, 04:21 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: His second half passer rating was 73.  His 4th quarter rating was 76

Yeah. Despite his fluke pass vs Baltimore too

You're new her so let me give you some advice:

I recommend you stop trying to explain the system and just except the fact that that like everything else in the history of the universe ESPN's QBR was solely designed to make Andy Dalton look less awesome than he truly is.  

They won't quit; they only multiply and get nastier.... Let's give Jon Kitna the respect he deserves in this thread. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-10-2018, 04:33 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: 4th and long. Defense playing for postseason

On the road.

There was a 99.5% chance Balt wins that game.

Haha. The fact you cant identify the luck of that play is astounding

Luck was the bomb in Baltimore to AJ Green a few years ago, this one was more of a good route by both Boyd, and Lafell (who drew the safety over to the sideline to allow a hole in the zone), and an accurate pass to Boyd.  The luck my have come with Boyd breaking a tackle to score, but the play was at least destined for a first down inside the red zone with time on the clock to still win the game......on 4th and 12. Thing is, if the safety doesn't bite on Lafell, and stays with Boyd, Lafell is open down the sideline with his man beat. It was simply a good read.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-10-2018, 03:58 PM)ElderStatesman Wrote: 1. 25 percent of this tds were vs the browns.

2. He also was terrible in clutch situations all season.

In high leverage situations, he was a wet blanket (pet the usual)

1. Actually 24% but I'm not sure what your point is. Are those entire games garbage-time situations? Flacco had 16% of his yards and 17% of his TDs against the Browns. He also had his best game against a terrible Indy team. Again, we're talking about "garbage time" though.

2. 





He also...

- Got us the lead with 5:03 left in the Titans game with a 70 yard strike to AJ Green, only to see the defense promptly give the lead back
- Went 3 for 3 with 34 yards and a TD to help ice the Broncos game in the 4th quarter
- Led a 7 play, 75 yard drive to ice the 2nd Browns game after they pulled within a score in the 4th
- Led 2 consecutive scoring drives against the Lions after they took a 4th quarter lead