Dalton vs. Bortles article

[Rhinocero23]

(01-11-2018, 01:40 PM)Stewy Wrote: Yes your ludicrous, ill informed and ignorant views on AD are well known.  Thanks for exposing yourself again.  I didn't need to see that.....

Lol...please.if you think AD is any more than mediocre you are the fool. It’s laughable that other mediocre quarterback that are winning in the playoffs do so because their “team elevates them”, somehow Dalton is the only mediocre quarterback who’s team doesn’t elevate him. Maybe he’s harder to elevate?

As stated before this is a highly competitive environment. Being mediocre means it’s time for you to go. That’s what professional sports is about.

You are generally not rewarded with long-term contracts to be average. Of coarse if you are lucky enough to be Mediocre and play for an Owner who embraces mediocrity you become the Mediocre franchise quarterback of a mediocre team. By the way for clarification all starting quarterbacks are the face of the franchise AKA the franchise quarterback. People here say it like Dalton is something you would build an organization around… Truly laughable.

[Joelist]

This constant, endless fight gets nowhere. Neither side is going to move from their positions and all it does is made the forum an unwelcoming place. This same nonsense made the old bengals.com forum unreadable well before it got closed down. I hope this place doesn't go down the same path.

[WildCat]

(01-14-2018, 08:59 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Lol...please.if you think AD is any more than mediocre you are the fool. It’s laughable that other mediocre quarterback that are winning in the playoffs do so because their “team elevates them”, somehow Dalton is the only mediocre quarterback who’s team doesn’t elevate him. Maybe he’s harder to elevate?

As stated before this is a highly competitive environment. Being mediocre means it’s time for you to go. That’s what professional sports is about.

You are generally not rewarded with long-term contracts to be average. Of coarse if you are lucky enough to be Mediocre and play for an Owner who embraces mediocrity you become the Mediocre franchise quarterback of a mediocre team. By the way for clarification all starting quarterbacks are the face of the franchise AKA the franchise quarterback. People here say it like Dalton is something you would build an organization around… Truly laughable.

you make good points but you (i did not read previous posts) failed to implicate why dalton has been successful AJ Green. they built the organization around the same thing they always do, passing / receiving. not running the ball. defense was instilled in zimmer and is slowly fading away. championship football continues eluding the bengals. you can be mediocre if you have a stellar defense and running game, ala blake bortles. you can't if you keep going after carson palmer or chad johnson etc....just another year just another failure. what makes next year any different? could probably recycle this post at the end of next year too and probably the year after that.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-14-2018, 08:24 PM)motoarch Wrote: I don’t hate dalton.  Find one post where I’ve said something negative about him.  I’ll wait.

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Didn’t find one did you.  

Fact is though come playoff time so far Bortles while not being great has gotten the job done with out costly errors and you can’t say that about dalton.  The prof is on tape and everyone can see it.  You don’t win Super Bowls by accruing regular season stats or mario would have a bunch and Manning would have several more.

I like Andy and want him to succeed but so far it’s not happening.  He’s a great person and I’m proud we have a guy like him as our qb but he’s just not getting the job done.

This 

[Bronxbengal]

(01-14-2018, 08:24 PM)motoarch Wrote: I don’t hate dalton. Find one post where I’ve said something negative about him. I’ll wait.

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Didn’t find one did you.

Fact is though come playoff time so far Bortles while not being great has gotten the job done with out costly errors and you can’t say that about dalton. The prof is on tape and everyone can see it. You don’t win Super Bowls by accruing regular season stats or mario would have a bunch and Manning would have several more.

I like Andy and want him to succeed but so far it’s not happening. He’s a great person and I’m proud we have a guy like him as our qb but he’s just not getting the job done.

Clueless! That’s all I can say! Andy can’t do it by himself. Matter of fact he was having a good game in 2015 playoff until the defense had their melt down. Is that on Dalton also? Palmer had crappy performances in the playoffs is that on Dalton? With halfass Alexander gone and with better QB coaching Dalton will become the QB all of you crave. However, I think if Johnny Unitas rose from the dead and became our starting QB some of you would ***** and moan about that. Many of you were the same whiners about Carson Palmer


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[Socal Bengals fan]

Scoreboard, Bortles 2 Dalton zero.... but...............

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2018, 09:43 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Scoreboard,  Bortles 2 Dalton zero.... but...............

Before I start posting lists for comparison let me make sure I understand exactly what you are saying.

You believe that winning plypoff games is the best measure of a QB and if given your choice between two QBs you would always take the one with more playoff victories.

Is that what you are saying?

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 09:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Before I start posting lists for comparison let me make sure I understand exactly what you are saying.

You believe that winning plypoff games is the best measure of a QB and if given your choice between two QBs you would always take the one with more playoff victories.

Is that what you are saying?

You could most likely post playoff QB stats of Andy v. Blake; as that is what the thread is about. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 08:55 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: So Andy should have thrown the Ball 51 times against the chargers? 

Hell no. Only a good QB should be asked to do that

[t3r3e3]

(01-14-2018, 09:41 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Clueless! That’s all I can say! Andy can’t do it by himself. Matter of fact he was having a good game in 2015 playoff until the defense had their melt down. Is that on Dalton also? Palmer had crappy performances in the playoffs is that on Dalton? With halfass Alexander gone and with better QB coaching Dalton will become the QB all of you crave. However, I think if Johnny Unitas rose from the dead and became our starting QB some of you would ***** and moan about that. Many of you were the same whiners about Carson Palmer


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2015 Playoff? You do realize that was AJ McCarron that put the Bengals ahead with a late 4th quarter TD, don’t you? Andy’s last two Playoff games were the dumpster fire against the Chargers, and the bad game (with no weapons) against the Colts.

[t3r3e3]

(01-14-2018, 10:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You could most likely post playoff QB stats of Andy v. Blake; as that is what the thread is about. 

Andy has a career Playoff passer rating of around 60 and a 1:7 or 8 TD/turnover ratio, so unless Bortles plays like crap against NE, Blake’s stats are going to look better. That said, Bortles has played in two Playoff games so far, with the promise of at least one more.

And seriously, no one doubts that Dalton is a better QB than Bortles. That said, Bortles has been better in the Playoffs, albeit marginally so.

[Rhinocero23]

(01-14-2018, 10:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell no. Only a good QB should be asked to do that

You are correct sir!

[t3r3e3]

(01-14-2018, 09:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Before I start posting lists for comparison let me make sure I understand exactly what you are saying.

You believe that winning plypoff games is the best measure of a QB and if given your choice between two QBs you would always take the one with more playoff victories.

Is that what you are saying?

At this point, what people really want is a QB who at least shows the ability to not crap the bed and win a single Playoff game. Andy has never shown competence in the Playoffs. He’s played very well in several regular seasons though. Everyone dogs McCarron, but it’s undeniable that he stepped up and led the team to a touchdown when the season was on the line in 2015. Andy has never been that guy in the postseason.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2018, 09:41 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Clueless!  That’s all I can say! Andy can’t do it by himself.  Matter of fact he was having a good game in 2015 playoff until the defense had their melt down.  Is that on Dalton also?  

Man that's going to hurt

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 09:07 PM)Joelist Wrote: This constant, endless fight gets nowhere. Neither side is going to move from their positions and all it does is made the forum an unwelcoming place. This same nonsense made the old bengals.com forum unreadable well before it got closed down. I hope this place doesn't go down the same path.

Personally, I'm an Andy fan and I've defended him when I thought the criticism was over the top, but I agree that the constant Andy debates are almost always the same and get pretty boring. 

To be fair though, I'm probably guilty of the same thing when it comes to Marvin Lewis topics. I tend to repeat the same points and have the same arguments. 

Basically, when it comes to Mike, Marvin or Andy threads...there's really not much that hasn't already been said thousands of times before. 

[*Synric*]

(01-14-2018, 10:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell no. Only a good QB should be asked to do that

Yea Dalton is not good they should be able to gett a 6th rounder if they trade him quickly enough.

[Shake n Blake]

Everyone (well...99%) seem to accept that Marvin Lewis is a choker. Why do they consider him a choker? Because his players have underwhelmed (to put it mildly) in prime-time and playoffs for 15 years, correct? Players that include (but are not limited to) Andy Dalton, correct? Ok then. Why do people act like coaching and scheme does not or should not affect Andy Dalton?

You either blame Marvin for the playoff struggles (when nearly everyone on the entire team has undeniably struggled) or you don't. Dalton bashers want to have their cake and eat it too. Blame Marvin, but also pretend Dalton should be above it all. Makes zero sense. I'd love to see Dalton in a playoff game for the Jaguars or Vikings. With their coaches, their schemes and their personnel.

Ask yourself whether or not you believe Dalton could win with those teams. Then ask yourself if Blake Bortles would win playoff games with Marvin Lewis and crew. You all know the answer. Quit playing.

[CornerBlitz]

(01-14-2018, 10:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Personally, I'm an Andy fan and I've defended him when I thought the criticism was over the top, but I agree that the constant Andy debates are almost always the same and get pretty boring. 

To be fair though, I'm probably guilty of the same thing when it comes to Marvin Lewis topics. I tend to repeat the same points and have the same arguments. 

Basically, when it comes to Mike, Marvin or Andy threads...there's really not much that hasn't already been said thousands of times before. 

I couldn't agree more.  I don't think anyone has changed their mind about Dalton besides the casual fans that never took a firm stance. 

I just wish we had a QB the fans could rally around and everyone knew was the franchise. 

[Bengalholic]

(01-14-2018, 10:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I couldn't agree more.  I don't think anyone has changed their mind about Dalton besides the casual fans that never took a firm stance. 

I just wish we had a QB the fans could rally around and everyone knew was the franchise. 

Unless you have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers...I think you're always going to have different camps in the fan base. Hell, even those 3 get their share of grief at times.

[CornerBlitz]

(01-14-2018, 11:02 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Unless you have a Brady, Brees or Rodgers...I think you're always going to have different camps in the fan base. Hell, even those 3 get their share of grief at times.

I disagree.  I think a third of the teams in the league are pretty settled at QB, a third could probably use an upgrade but produces enough to have enough support, and a third that clearly need a QB.

I think at times being that middle bunch could be the worst position to be in. Similar to an NBA team that is good enough to barely make the playoffs but gets trounced in the first round each year. It's better to be a bad NBA team and get a high draft pick to be able to select a player like Ben Simmons than picking 10-14 and maintaining a state of mediocrity.

U really want to know what you have and be able to move forward one way or another.