When was the last time...

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2018, 12:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He got a 1yr/$2.5m deal for 2016, put up okay-ish stats, only because he was force-fed the ball with AJ Green injured. Both Wallace and Matthews were available instead.

Then 2017 rolled around and they gave him the 2yr/$9m deal and he completely unsurprisingly turded it up.

That's why I listed both LaFell contracts.

Gotcha. Misread and interpreted as most recent contract.

[jowczarski]

@SunsetBengals - my bad!

@Samhain - So it was typical Marvin lip service, really. No change in how they spend or view the outside FA process whatsoever.

Well, I think Marvin knows they need to be better on pro personnel. Like if you're going to spend $5 million on a linebacker, maybe it shouldn't be Karlos Dansby or Kevin Minter.

@TheLeonardLeap - on your Marvin Jones breakdown

Really interesting. And 100% true. They're still chasing that guy. I think TBoyd has adequately replaced Sanu, skill wise. (Now, is he mentally the same player? No. But talent wise and filling that slot role, yes). The one caveat to that is they matched the money to Jones - he decided he didn't want to be in Green's shadow. I'll be honest. I don't know if a certain amount of money would have made him come back. And at that point, if there was a "magic number" to do that, it would have been folly to pay Marvin Jones that kind of cash. I wasn't here for the Joseph thing, but didn't they extend Leon Hall after that as well?

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 10:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Bleh.

That reminds me of back when they let JJo leave over guaranteed money/signing bonus. They ended up spending more money on 7 CBs during that time than they would have if they had just paid JJo what he wanted.

Brandon Ghee (3rd round pick + 4yr/$2.44m)
Dre Kirkpatrick (1st round pick + 4yr/$8.6m)
Shaun Prater (5th round pick + 4yr/$2.212 )
Kelly Jennings (1yr/$2m)
Nate Clements (2yr/$10.5m)
Jason Allen (2yr/$8.2m)
Terrence Newman (1yr/$825k)

....were the Bengals attempts to fill JJo's gap in the 2 years following his departure. A 1st, 3rd, 5th round picks, and $34.777m in contracts.... to avoid giving JJo more guaranteed money on a 5yr/$48.75m deal. You figure JJo got $9.75m/yr, so $19.5m in those first two years and those 7 players total $28.151m for those same two years.

So a 1st, 3rd, and 5th round pick, plus $8.651m more than JJo would have cost, to do a lesser job than JJo would have done.

THAT is the Bengals way.

Newman and Clements were both on the field at the same time for most of 2012.  We might have saved a little money, but our defense would have suffered with Joseph playing two CB positions at the same time.  Either that or your entire premise is a joke because Joseph was not the only CB that left the Bengals in '11 and '12.

And, of course, you ignore the fact that the Bengals pass defense improved after Joseph left.  But why be happy about improvement when you can cry about how much players are being paid?  


THAT is the LeonardLeap way.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(01-18-2018, 10:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Bleh.

That reminds me of back when they let JJo leave over guaranteed money/signing bonus. They ended up spending more money on 7 CBs during that time than they would have if they had just paid JJo what he wanted.

Brandon Ghee (3rd round pick + 4yr/$2.44m)
Dre Kirkpatrick (1st round pick + 4yr/$8.6m)
Shaun Prater (5th round pick + 4yr/$2.212 )
Kelly Jennings (1yr/$2m)
Nate Clements (2yr/$10.5m)
Jason Allen (2yr/$8.2m)
Terrence Newman (1yr/$825k)

....were the Bengals attempts to fill JJo's gap in the 2 years following his departure. A 1st, 3rd, 5th round picks, and $34.777m in contracts.... to avoid giving JJo more guaranteed money on a 5yr/$48.75m deal. You figure JJo got $9.75m/yr, so $19.5m in those first two years and those 7 players total $28.151m for those same two years.

So a 1st, 3rd, and 5th round pick, plus $8.651m more than JJo would have cost, to do a lesser job than JJo would have done.

THAT is the Bengals way.




I had legitimately already forgotten he was ever a Bengal until you just now mentioned it and I went "oh yeah".

And Hobson wrote a fluff piece on how Cincinnati was a "destination" for free-agents. In other words, free-agents were looking to come TO the Bengals instead of leave. He wasn't completely wrong; problem is it's usually the washed-up free agents that look to come here. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-21-2018, 03:26 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: And Hobson wrote a fluff piece on how Cincinnati was a "destination" for free-agents. In other words, free-agents were looking to come TO the Bengals instead of leave. He wasn't completely wrong; problem is it's usually the washed-up free agents that look to come here. 

Cincinnati:  Where old LBs go out to pasture..

[samhain]

(01-20-2018, 03:40 PM)jowczarski Wrote: @SunsetBengals - my bad!

@Samhain - So it was typical Marvin lip service, really.  No change in how they spend or view the outside FA process whatsoever.

Well, I think Marvin knows they need to be better on pro personnel. Like if you're going to spend $5 million on a linebacker, maybe it shouldn't be Karlos Dansby or Kevin Minter.

@TheLeonardLeap - on your Marvin Jones breakdown

Really interesting. And 100% true. They're still chasing that guy. I think TBoyd has adequately replaced Sanu, skill wise. (Now, is he mentally the same player? No. But talent wise and filling that slot role, yes). The one caveat to that is they matched the money to Jones - he decided he didn't want to be in Green's shadow. I'll be honest. I don't know if a certain amount of money would have made him come back. And at that point, if there was a "magic number" to do that, it would have been folly to pay Marvin Jones that kind of cash. I wasn't here for the Joseph thing, but didn't they extend Leon Hall after that as well?

That's true, for sure, Jim.  Honestly, I believe they need to change their approach to that position.  Maybe spend a high pick on a linebacker for the first time in a long time.  That's not something we've seen here since Maualuga and Keith Rivers, really.  If they keep missing on these guys, then draft one that can be shaped in their system.  

I think they feel like they can coach these guys that are late picks and UDFAs up to be adequate or good.  It's worked for Burfict, but he's obviously an exception because he was a first round talent with non-play related red flags.  They pay the price for those red flags somewhat often, too honestly.  Vinny Rey was a find, but he's more of a fill-in jack-of-all trades than an ideal starting NFL linebacker.  

[Hammerstripes]

(01-17-2018, 06:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well at least now we know why they don't do it anymore.

Yeah, it's too bad Odom got hurt.  He was earning his money here.

[HarleyDog]

(01-21-2018, 03:26 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: And Hobson wrote a fluff piece on how Cincinnati was a "destination" for free-agents. In other words, free-agents were looking to come TO the Bengals instead of leave. He wasn't completely wrong; problem is it's usually the washed-up free agents that look to come here. 

That’s because we are the 2nd chance organization (& 3rd, 4th, 5th etc).

[*Go Cards*]

(01-21-2018, 02:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Newman and Clements were both on the field at the same time for most of 2012.  We might have saved a little money, but our defense would have suffered with Joseph playing two CB positions at the same time.  Either that or your entire premise is a joke because Joseph was not the only CB that left the Bengals in '11 and '12.

And, of course, you ignore the fact that the Bengals pass defense improved after Joseph left.  But why be happy about improvement when you can cry about how much players are being paid?  


THAT is the LeonardLeap way.

May be true, but what really hurt with the Joseph move was that the owner promised Zimmer that Joseph would be brought back. Zimmer was mad and let it be known publicly as well. 

Will take Zimmer's opinion on Joseph over anybody else's on this matter. 

Plus we all know the D-line was mostly the reason for coverage success by hounding QB's. 

Now they have another great one it appears in WJ3 and hopefully we decide to keep him. Or at least play him more before he becomes a FA.