New England Offensive Line: Mind Blown!

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Yes, they spy. Yes, they deflate balls. These two things are incontrovertibly true. Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach. What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why: Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY: Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS. I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before. The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE. This is why Tom Brady is so confident: His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten. I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught. The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders. This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

[*bfine32*]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy.  Yes, they deflate balls.  These two things are incontrovertibly true.  Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach.  What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why:  Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY:  Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS.  I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before.  The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE.  This is why Tom Brady is so confident:  His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten.  I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught.  The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders.  This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

I think it may have more to do with Tom Brady doesn't leave the pocket even if it is collapsing around him; he simply relocates in it. Tom was sacked 35 times this past season. Pocket collapsed plenty.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy. Yes, they deflate balls. These two things are incontrovertibly true. Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach. What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why: Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY: Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS. I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before. The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE. This is why Tom Brady is so confident: His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten. I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught. The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders. This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

While I don't agree with bfine, I agree that you're giving him too much credit.

If most teams "engaged," for that long, they'd be called for holding to death.

But this is the Patriots, after all...

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy. Yes, they deflate balls. These two things are incontrovertibly true. Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach. What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why: Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY: Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS. I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before. The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE. This is why Tom Brady is so confident: His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten. I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught. The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders. This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

How do you know they deflate balls when the NFL doesn't know which gauge was used to measure the air pressure in the balls?

[StoneTheCrow]

In order for a lineman to block until the ball is gone a lineman must first be able to block.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-22-2018, 11:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think it may have more to do with Tom Brady doesn't leave the pocket even if it is collapsing around him; he simply relocates in it. Tom was sacked 35 times this past season. Pocket collapsed plenty.  

That’s a bingo

[Pat5775]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy.  Yes, they deflate balls.  These two things are incontrovertibly true.  Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach.  What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why:  Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY:  Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS.  I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before.  The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE.  This is why Tom Brady is so confident:  His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten.  I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught.  The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders.  This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

True

(01-22-2018, 11:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think it may have more to do with Tom Brady doesn't leave the pocket even if it is collapsing around him; he simply relocates in it. Tom was sacked 35 times this past season. Pocket collapsed plenty.  

And also true. 

But keep in mind, I saw at least 10 plays with blatant holding that wasn't called on New England. Shocking, I know   It's easy to look great when you are allowed the luxury to hold all day long. The patriots had, what, one penalty? I'd say two at the most but I really only remember one.

We won't get the preferential treatment the patriots do for a long time, and that's only if we start winning consistently and become a "media darling franchise"

[bengalsturntup926]

(01-23-2018, 12:35 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: True






And also true. 

But keep in mind, I saw at least 10 plays with blatant holding that wasn't called on New England. Shocking, I know   It's easy to look great when you are allowed the luxury to hold all day long. The patriots had, what, one penalty? I'd say two at the most but I really only remember one.

We won't get the preferential treatment the patriots do for a long time, and that's only if we start winning consistently and become a "media darling franchise"

But have we even tried to hold all game long or would they call holding on all of them? Sometimes you got to join the cheaters

[*Go Cards*]

(01-23-2018, 12:35 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: True






And also true. 

But keep in mind, I saw at least 10 plays with blatant holding that wasn't called on New England. Shocking, I know   It's easy to look great when you are allowed the luxury to hold all day long. The patriots had, what, one penalty? I'd say two at the most but I really only remember one.

We won't get the preferential treatment the patriots do for a long time, and that's only if we start winning consistently and become a "media darling franchise"

One penalty the entire game. 

[Interceptor]

Having the refs look the other way helps a little bit.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy.  Yes, they deflate balls.  These two things are incontrovertibly true.  Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach.  What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why:  Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY:  Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS.  I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before.  The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE.  This is why Tom Brady is so confident:  His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten.  I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught.  The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders.  This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

I also saw them hold with ridiculous regularity.  The great thing about Jacksonville's guys is they kept fighting through the holds and still got some pressures. 

Those holds, plus the PI calls on Jax, the non-PI calls on the Pats makes me think I am just watching wrestling.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

There's truth in both points of view.....and they do get away with holding.  Brady does move in the pocket well, but he doesn't have a center getting shoved in his lap every play either.  I noticed the same thing in the AFCCG last season, and even commented on it.  Look back at the pass to Hogan in the back of the end zone against the Stoolers.  I counted 10 seconds as well, and he barely moved in the pocket.  FiK is right, their line play is very good.  Brady is arguably the greatest of all time, but like another great, Joe Montana, he has enjoyed some good protection.....which gives you confidence, and time to move around in the pocket.  Of course, he gets the ball out quickly at times too. It's a combination of a lot of things in New England.....mainly stellar coaching. No one in the league has Darth Hoodie.....especially not the Bengals with Mediocre Merv. 

To those that say Scarnecchia is getting too much credit.....he retired for one year, the Pats had their worst year blocking, they called him back, and are going to their second straight SB since his return.  I'm not saying he's the reason they win SBs, but if you're selling him short, you don't understand the importance of competent line play.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-23-2018, 12:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s a bingo

[*ochocincos*]

Also worth noting the OL's rounds in which they were drafted...
LT = Nate Solder - 1st (2011)
LG = Joe Thuney - 3rd (2016)
C = David Andrews UDFA (2015)
RG = Shaq Mason - 4th (2015)
RT = Cam Fleming - 4th (2014)

Pretty impressive given the youth of the players and the fact only one was drafted within the first two rounds of a draft.
You don't need all Day 1 and Day 2 picks if you have good coaching.

[bengalguy71]

(01-22-2018, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, they spy.  Yes, they deflate balls.  These two things are incontrovertibly true.  Still, I must give credit where credit is due — and it’s time to give mad props to Dante Scarnecchia, the Patriots’ masterful offensive line coach.  What I saw in the AFC Championship blew my mind and here’s why:  Tom Brady often has up to ten seconds to throw a pass but I finally figured out WHY:  Dante teaches a blocking method where each lineman stays locked up with a defensive player UNTIL TOM BRADY RELEASES THE PASS.  I’ve been watching offensive lines for decades and I’ve never seen this before.  The Patriot linemen do not stop blocking until that ball is GONE.  This is why Tom Brady is so confident:  His pocket rarely collapses.

I saw this happen on one pass play, then two, then ten.  I truly hope Frank Pollack teaches this technique to Cincinnati because it’s actually easier than the “backpedal and wave your arms” method Paul Alexander taught.  The other part of Dante’s technique involves moving forward INTO the defenders.  This makes for a bigger pocket and uses the offensive linemens’ energy in the right direction.

Year after year after year after year!!!

The SB will be interesting because the Eagles have a similar defense that the Giants had when they beat the Patriots twice.  Pressure on Brady and make him move.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-23-2018, 10:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Also worth noting the OL's rounds in which they were drafted...
LT = Nate Solder - 1st (2011)
LG = Joe Thuney - 3nd (2016)
C = David Andrews UDFA (2015)
RG = Shaq Mason - 4th (2015)
RT = Cam Fleming - 4th (2014)

Pretty impressive given the youth of the players and the fact only one was drafted within the first two rounds of a draft.
You don't need all Day 1 and Day 2 picks if you have good coaching.

This......times infinty.

[grampahol]

Say what you want and go ahead and believe it's all on the up and up, but Brady gets more than just a little bit of help via zebratic intervention. 
I'm going with Brian Tuohy's take on things.. There's a lot of stuff Brian and myself disagree with, but this ain't one of them. 
http://www.thefixisin.net/nfl2017.html

Quote:But then there was the AFC Conference Championship Game between the Jaguars and Patriots. NFL fans didn't seem overly happy that the first person to congratulate Tom Brady once the game had ended was the head referee:

Quote:

But given that the Patriots had one -- count 'em -- one penalty called against them (and on a kickoff return, no less), perhaps he should've been.

How much does 10 yards or 20 yards matter in a four point game (NE won 24-20)? Well, how about 88 yards? Because that was the difference in penalty yards assessed: NE 1-for-10, JAX 6-for-98. Two of the Jaguars' penalties helped New England cut the score from 14-3 to 14-10 near the end of the first half.

Two major non-calls by the refs also tinkered with the outcome. The first was the quick whistle on the Miles Jack fumble recovery which would've been a TD had the refs not immediately ruled him down by contact (which also made the play non-reviewable):

The second was the non-pass interference call on a late-game fourth down pass play by Jacksonville which, if called, would've kept the Jags hope alive.

For good measure, you could throw in a non-call on a Danny Amendola headbutt on the Jags Tashaun Gipson which officials saw, but decided wasn't "flagrant" enough to throw a flag on. This caused the Jags AJ Bouye to say post-game, “I was pissed because I seen Amendola head-butt the hell out of Gip in front of the ref and you all don’t call nothing? It don’t make no sense man; it’s a lot of stuff that don’t make no sense. I have a lot of respect for these people in this locker room. They kept fighting, we all kept fighting. We knew there was stuff we couldn’t control and we kept it close.”

There's some historical weirdness to the officials' penalty calling in this game. For one, the Patriots getting only one penalty called against them all game was the first time that had happened in the playoffs since 2011 -- when the Patriots also were called just once for a penalty in a victory over the Ravens. Secondly, the Jags were called for defensive pass interference five times all season, yet were called for it twice in this game. In fact, the Jags defense was only flagged nine times total all season. In other words, if any team should've been penalty free, statisically speaking, it should've been Jacksonville. Instead, it was just the opposite

You can click on the link for the graphics if you want..
I chalk it down to Ripleys Believe it or not.. The league has become a real odditorium for sure..
Oddly enough I'll keep watching the National Fixed League or call it the National Fiction League.. Either one works for me. 

[BigPapaKain]

(01-23-2018, 01:09 PM)grampahol Wrote: Say what you want and go ahead and believe it's all on the up and up, but Brady gets more than just a little bit of help via zebratic intervention. 
I'm going with Brian Tuohy's take on things.. There's a lot of stuff Brian and myself disagree with, but this ain't one of them. 
http://www.thefixisin.net/nfl2017.html


You can click on the link for the graphics if you want..
I chalk it down to Ripleys Believe it or not.. The league has become a real odditorium for sure..
Oddly enough I'll keep watching the National Fixed League or call it the National Fiction League.. Either one works for me. 

That page reads like the fever dreams of those conspiracy theorists on 4chan.

[WeezyBengal]

New England holds their players accountable. If one of their players on the offensive line sucks hes either going to get bitched at by Brady or benched by Bellichick. If one of our guys sucks then he will continue to play like nothing ever happened.

[The Caped Crusader]

They are also amazing at not getting flagged. Quite a few holding(s) in the Jags game. That being said, as I was coached always preached. You can find holding in every play, it is just calling it that changes it. They didn't call it.