McCarron wins grievance, will be UFA

[Interceptor]

I wish McCarron the best of luck wherever he lands!

[Daddy-O]

(02-15-2018, 08:42 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Other than losing the draft picks from the Browns debacle I couldn't give a rat's ass about AJM.

I don't believe they ever intended him to be anything but a backup.

If he really had starter potential he would've never slipped that far in the draft.

We'll just have to see what happens but getting starter money for not doing squat will be someone else's issue.

I hope the Stains sign him anyway.

Posters fawning over the Browns getting AJM and who they'll pick in the draft...  c'mon man!!

That team has had so many chances to improve and epically failed with picks galore.

At this point I think the Browns would be stupid to sign AJ.  They have the number 1 pick in QB rich draft, so the pick of the litter for a franchise QB.  Granted they typically screw these up but I just don't see them signing AJ to a big deal at his age and then taking a young QB #1 overall - just doesn't make sense.  But again, it is the Browns.

If they can get AJ for 2 or 3 years they might do it.  It'll be interesting to see what teams will offer him year wise.  Obviously he'll take the best offer.  Good for AJ, great kid.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 04:48 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: we desperately needed those picks..we blew it.

They actually won't. This fits their blueprint on how to do things.

They'll actually get a third round comp pick If they stay under $9M APY. So this seals the deal for being "buyers" in FA.

They also need to lose more UFAs than they sign. Eifert & Hill also seem like comp pick candidates if the Bengals don't re-sign them.


So they still get a pick, just not as good of one if they traded.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 08:19 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: There's one angle in all of this that I don't see anyone talking about: the arbiter of this case just ruled that the Bengals IMPROPERLY moved AJMc to the NFI list. They broke the rules. They cheated and got caught. How is that not gross and flagrant incompetence? That's pretty scummy and bush league of them too. Even ignoring everything to do with the trade, there was some high level incompetence somewhere or other if the arbiter found sufficient evidence to rule this way.

As for the trade, in 20/20 hindsight it looks very much as though the Browns might have purposefully dangled those picks and sunk it. If they DID pull that off on purpose, they are now on AJMc's good side and have effectively shafted the Bengals out of picks. They also prevented AJMc from settling in with a new team/system. That's an awful lot of leverage gained from a "mistake", is it not?

Quote:“The NFL Management Council represented the club in the grievance,” league spokesman Brian McCarthy told PFT via email on Thursday night. Asked whether this means that the NFL agreed with the team’s decision to place McCarron on the NFI list, McCarthy said, “Correct.”

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 09:24 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: At this point I think the Browns would be stupid to sign AJ.  They have the number 1 pick in QB rich draft, so the pick of the litter for a franchise QB.  Granted they typically screw these up but I just don't see them signing AJ to a big deal at his age and then taking a young QB #1 overall - just doesn't make sense.  But again, it is the Browns.

If they can get AJ for 2 or 3 years they might do it.  It'll be interesting to see what teams will offer him year wise.  Obviously he'll take the best offer.  Good for AJ, great kid.

I've read it'll be around 12.5 mil a year...but of course that's just "hear-say". 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Jso, AJM is now free to go and be a backup for another team and make a little more money.

The good news is that all those annoying AJM fans will move on to his new team and leave this board!

[*bfine32*]

(02-16-2018, 10:03 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Jso, AJM is now free to go and be a backup for another team and make a little more money.

The good news is that all those annoying AJM fans will move on to his new team and leave this board!

Fans leaving this Board is never a good thing. I know I never what to lose the unannoying Andy is an elite QB fanbase.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 02:00 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: How do I know the Bengals waited....

Ummm that is actually easy. See back in the draft the Browns offered a pick for AJM then, that was news and common knowledge. See Hue wanted AJM that is also common knowledge. 

But old Mikey boy, he wanted to wait this game out, and now...now he gets nothing. 

Up the offer by waiting...cool...so quick question which of these things sucks the most.

A 2nd and 5th round pick
A 2nd and 3rd round pick
Not a damn thing.

Guess which one Mike went for by screwing around. 

The Pats do it right, that's why they have rings. When Mike and his bff on the sideline can win a damn playoff game then we'll talk about "trying to hold out for more." 

Two picks in the previous draft (the 2nd and 5th) had more value the AJM, but Mike waited. Now he gets no value. Classic Bengals.

We will get something for AJ. Remember, Bengals live off comp picks and being passive in FA. This is EXACTLY what they're doing here. They'll be passive in FA and get their gold comp picks (Third and probably fifth) for AJ and probably Hill. This is the same thing they've been doing for years and years now. It's really nothing new, just a new player.

[*ochocincos*]

Here's at least my belief for why some (most?) fans are irritated by this series of events that have transpired in the AJ McCarron saga.

These fans do not believe McCarron is markedly better than Andy Dalton. In fact, probably (slightly?) worse.

However, these same fans felt the window to trade McCarron was right after the 2015 season because his value would never be higher and there likely would have been some team that fell in love with him almost getting the Bengals that evasive playoff win and consider him a winner. They didn't actually think he was an amazing QB, but should have taken advantage of his few starts and boosted stock to get a pick or player that could result in a true starter.

The fans also are irritated with Mike Brown because the feeling is he was asking too much for McCarron. Only a desperate team would have been willing to give up so much, and it took to the very last minutes of the very last day to almost happen.

Would the Bengals have been able to trade McCarron faster/sooner if they had only asked for a 2nd rounder rather than 2nd and 3rd? Many think yes.
Instead, whether it's the fault of the Bengals, the Browns, or a mix of both, the Bengals get, at best, a 2019 comp pick for McCarron.
It just boils down to frustration.

[bengals67]

(02-16-2018, 10:39 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: We will get something for AJ. Remember, Bengals live off comp picks and being passive in FA. This is EXACTLY what they're doing here. They'll be passive in FA and get their gold comp picks (Third and probably fifth) for AJ and probably Hill. This is the same thing they've been doing for years and years now. It's really nothing new, just a new player.

There is always some explanation for these specific incidents but the big picture shows that Bengals organization is borderline incompetent.

Glad for McCarron that he now gets a chance some where else.

This young man has great confidence under pressure. Don't be stunned if he turns into a very good nfl QB when he actually gets to play for a sustained period of time. 

 There is a reason why Jackson wanted him.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 11:52 AM)bengals67 Wrote: There is always some explanation for these specific incidents but the big picture shows that Bengals organization is borderline incompetent.

Glad for McCarron that he now gets a chance some where else.

This young man has great confidence under pressure. Don't be stunned if he turns into a very good nfl QB when he actually gets to play for a sustained period of time. 

 There is a reason why Jackson wanted him.

No it doesn't (at least not for this particular instance). it says they're very good at negotiating if anything. They were able to agree on a second and third round pick, which nobody else agreed on. The trade fell apart for whatever reason, but the fact is they were able to negotiate that trade. And they knew they would get at the very least a comp pick if they let him walk, so they had that in their back pocket. Say what you want about this FO, but trading is something they're pretty good at. Look at the Palmer deal as an example. 

And yeah, I don't have any ill will toward him. I hope he wins multiple SBs with his new team. 

[*Go Cards*]

(02-16-2018, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's at least my belief for why some (most?) fans are irritated by this series of events that have transpired in the AJ McCarron saga.

These fans do not believe McCarron is markedly better than Andy Dalton. In fact, probably (slightly?) worse.

However, these same fans felt the window to trade McCarron was right after the 2015 season because his value would never be higher and there likely would have been some team that fell in love with him almost getting the Bengals that evasive playoff win and consider him a winner. They didn't actually think he was an amazing QB, but should have taken advantage of his few starts and boosted stock to get a pick or player that could result in a true starter.

The fans also are irritated with Mike Brown because the feeling is he was asking too much for McCarron. Only a desperate team would have been willing to give up so much, and it took to the very last minutes of the very last day to almost happen.

Would the Bengals have been able to trade McCarron faster/sooner if they had only asked for a 2nd rounder rather than 2nd and 3rd? Many think yes.
Instead, whether it's the fault of the Bengals, the Browns, or a mix of both, the Bengals get, at best, a 2019 comp pick for McCarron.
It just boils down to frustration.

Exactly and seems there was a 2nd reportedly offered in off season. 

[*Go Cards*]

AJM's wife is welcome to stay though.

Just wanted to extend an invitation just in case.

[*Nately120*]

(02-16-2018, 11:57 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: No it doesn't (at least not for this particular instance). it says they're very good at negotiating if anything. They were able to agree on a second and third round pick, which nobody else agreed on. The trade fell apart for whatever reason, but the fact is they were able to negotiate that trade. And they knew they would get at the very least a comp pick if they let him walk, so they had that in their back pocket. Say what you want about this FO, but trading is something they're pretty good at. Look at the Palmer deal as an example. 

And yeah, I don't have any ill will toward him. I hope he wins multiple SBs with his new team. 

Ehh, I know I'm a negative Nately, but Mike Brown's history shows a guy who isn't afraid to make or turn down outrageous demands because he knows he's not going to lose his job if it falls through.  Mike Brown turned down offers for Palmer and then lucked into a desperate HC who knew Palmer needing a starting QB immediately during a winning season.  He was content to get nothing for him, but Hue Jackson had a few moments where he had way more control of a franchise than he ever deserved to have.  Lightning in a bottle, it was.

Mike Brown also turned down a plethora of picks so he could draft a QB that had major red flags; gutsy move...wrong move. No skin off his arse, though right?  Mike Brown wanted more for McCarron than the 49ers paid for the highly sought Garoppolo and it fell through.  Both times he ended up missing out because he placed more value on a player than people who are held accountable for their errors would have.

The guy makes these gutsy moves because he's invincible but every now and then something pays off and he looks like the biggest genius there is.  He's been our GM for 27 years, so I'd expect more success from a good GM in that time span.  This McCarron thing is just the latest example of Mike Brown using his leverage as an untouchable GM to push GM's who can actually get fired if they make the wrong move into a corner.  It didn't work this time.  So it goes.  

Sashi Brown gets the axe, Mike Brown lives on for GM year 28 and counting.   

[*PhilHos*]

(02-16-2018, 10:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Fans leaving this Board is never a good thing. I know I never what to lose the unannoying Andy is an elite QB fanbase.

Can't lose something that doesn't exist. 

[jj22]

I'm extremely disappointed we won't get a draft pick. We know we can't rely on Free Agency for help if we want to be honest. The Front Office just doesn't know how to play this game. There will be no passing on OT in the first round now. I don't even know how they can risk it with no extra pic in the 2nd. We need 2 starters at OT, and so much more, but we have to get the line fixed, and the extra pick would have helped sneak in a high round Safety, Center, DE, or LB. But that's not happening anymore.

It was a significant blow because it means some of the pieces we need that the extra pick/s could have solved will have to wait until 2019. And that's not good for the outlook of 2018 being any different then what we've seen the last two years.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-16-2018, 12:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, I know I'm a negative Nately, but Mike Brown's history shows a guy who isn't afraid to make or turn down outrageous demands because he knows he's not going to lose his job if it falls through.  Mike Brown turned down offers for Palmer and then lucked into a desperate HC who knew Palmer needing a starting QB immediately during a winning season.  He was content to get nothing for him, but Hue Jackson had a few moments where he had way more control of a franchise than he ever deserved to have.  Lightning in a bottle, it was.

Mike Brown also turned down a plethora of picks so he could draft a QB that had major red flags; gutsy move...wrong move.  No skin off his arse, though right?  Mike Brown wanted more for McCarron than the 49ers paid for the highly sought Garoppolo and it fell through.  Both times he ended up missing out because he placed more value on a player than people who are held accountable for their errors would have.

The guy makes these gutsy moves because he's invincible but every now and then something pays off and he looks like the biggest genius there is.  He's been our GM for 27 years, so I'd expect more success from a good GM in that time span.  This McCarron thing is just the latest example of Mike Brown using his leverage as an untouchable GM to push GM's who can actually get fired if they make the wrong move into a corner.  It didn't work this time.  So it goes.  

Sashi Brown gets the axe, Mike Brown lives on for GM year 28 and counting.   

Well... he's the GM and owner, and I know I wouldn't fire myself lol

But yeah, you're 100% correct.

Not saying he's immune to criticism, but trading is probably lower on the list is all I am saying for the very reason you stated: what does he have to lose? Certainly not his job, so he can be as gutsy as possible with nothing to worry about. I'm sure a lot of GMs would have better luck with trading if they didn't have to be held accountable for their actions (from trade, draft, etc).

[*Nately120*]

(02-16-2018, 12:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm still disappointed we won't get a draft pick. There will be no passing on OT in the first round now. I don't even know how they can risk it with no extra pic in the 2nd.

You'd be amazed what you can "risk" when you (meaning Marvin and Mike) aren't held accountable for failure.  They can risk it all!  I envy them so.

[Luvnit2]

(02-16-2018, 10:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Fans leaving this Board is never a good thing. I know I never what to lose the unannoying Andy is an elite QB fanbase.

Do 1 or 2 fans count as a fan base? 

I don't want to lose those who embellish to try and make themselves look better? 

[*Go Cards*]

(02-16-2018, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do 1 or 2 fans count as a fan base? 

I don't want to lose those who embellish to try and make themselves look better? 

Some are self promoters