John Ross

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2018, 10:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, John Ross must look awful in practice....with the exception of the video he posted on twitter called "healthy scratch" where he is doing things to our defense that I have NEVER seen Lafell do to ANY team.  

And I guess your message about practice holds true for the offensive line, right?  Westerman and Redmond looked worse in practice than Bodine or Hopkins?  Bullshit.  You obviously don't realize the time constraints of an NFL practice and the starters get the vast majority of the reps.  Marv never gave Core or Malone the chance in practice to prove themselves to the extend that Lafell would be out there.  It is who was being paid.....their big FA acquisition, Captain Average (Lafell).

Since Marv's strategy worked so well as to motivate Ross to post a video of what really happens in practice, maybe Westerman, Redmond, Core, and Malone should do the same.  It was immature, and the wrong thing to do, but it got a lot of people on here off Ross's back and on to Marvins.  You should like that idea, because it is based on what they do in "practice" 


blob:https://vine.co/6c2d7e70-e57c-46cc-8bd2-f83f21d4b7c5

Yeah, none of us are there at practice but i think your argument just rings true to me out of watching these coaches namely Marv for
so long. In the end they start the higher paid player regardless of play on the field, atleast lots of times this is the case, more-so than
nought.

Westerman was very solid in college and has been solid everytime i have seen him. To not play him when we desperately needed help
on the interior RG position all year in inexcusable. He was also spoken of playing Center tons coming out all the while we field probably
the worst Center in the NFL time after time.

I think this will change under Pollack thank God.

(03-01-2018, 12:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You do realize that Ross was probably not motivated to include the things he was doing wrong in that practice video, right?

I still remember in Training Camp how everyone was raving about Ross in practice and how only Will Jax was able to keep up with him.

This is in practice before the season. All of a sudden he gets hurt and later on is a healthy scratch and everyone is dogging about Ross
like he cannot practice. He evidently was not healthy and it was fake news. As he said himself he was not in football shape.

I don't think it was just Ross doing the wrong things, there was something else going on as he looked better than Lafell from what i saw.

(03-01-2018, 12:43 PM)Go Cards Wrote: If he was so bad then clearly a mistake was made by not going for a position of need and jumping on Ross in draft.

They just need to admit it then and move on or at least motivate him.  

But calling BS and think he will suddenly be a contributor this year.

If coaches believe he will not be ? Trade him now while he still has value.

Some team surely was high on him and will take a chance.

Or is the plan to just sit him until he walks for free ?

This team needed speed desperately when we drafted him and Ross is much more than just that. As the article speaks, Ross is a football
player who just got fast. He is just what we need, once he gets his feet under him i expect more than just a contributor on Offense.

I expect a gamechanger.

(03-01-2018, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly.  Despite having the handicap of the worst owner in the league Marvin wins more than he loses against other NFL coaches.

Barely wins more than he loses in the regular season, with very talented teams to work with.

Never wins in the postseason, the worst ever of any coach of all time.

[fredtoast]

(03-01-2018, 04:10 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: You and merv make a cute couple

And you can not dispute the facts.

[BenZoo2]

(03-01-2018, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And you can not dispute the facts.

In 15 years as bengals head coach Marvin’s winning % is 527. He has 7 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons and 3 .500 seasons. Slightly above average. He has the most playoff losses without a win in nfl history. Facts.

His dementia saddled boss is the only reason he’s held on this long.


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[fredtoast]

(03-01-2018, 05:57 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: In 15 years as bengals head coach Marvin’s winning % is 527.  He has 7 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons and 3 .500 seasons.  Slightly above average.  He has the most playoff losses without a win in nfl history.  Facts.  

His dementia saddled boss is the only reason he’s held on this long.  

Yes.  This is exactly what I said.

Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league he still wins more than he loses against other NFL coaches.

[BenZoo2]

(03-01-2018, 06:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  This is exactly what I said.

Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league he still wins more than he loses against other NFL coaches.

Dare to dream fred. Perhaps you’re satisfied with that. I’m not. I thought the goal was to win championships.


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[fredtoast]

(03-01-2018, 06:06 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Dare to dream fred.  Perhaps you’re satisfied with that.  I’m not.  I thought the goal was to win championships.  

I am not satisfied with it.  Marvin should have been gone after this last season.

But that does not mean I am going to stop using my brain.  The Marvin hatred around here is making some people look stupid.  It is like in politics where you claim that everything the leaders of the other party do is wrong even when they are doing the exact same thing as the leaders of your own party.

Too many people here have given up on logical analysis in favor of ignorant raging hatred.

[Sled21]

(03-01-2018, 04:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't think it was just Ross doing the wrong things, there was something else going on as he looked better than Lafell from what i saw.

People can say what they want about LaFell, but one thing you can't take away from him is when he runs a route, he ends up being where he is supposed to be. Now whether Dalton gets the ball there or not, LaFell is there. The one route we saw Ross run, he quit in the middle of it. So, we'll see if Ross gets it right this time. hopefully he will....

[BenZoo2]

(03-01-2018, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not satisfied with it.  Marvin should have been gone after this last season.

But that does not mean I am going to stop using my brain.  The Marvin hatred around here is making some people look stupid.  It is like in politics where you claim that everything the leaders of the other party do is wrong even when they are doing the exact same thing as the leaders of your own party.

Too many people here have given up on logical analysis in favor of ignorant raging hatred.

Fred, I am your father. Come to the dark side. Join me, and together we can rule this board.

But since you’re not satisfied and think Marvin should’ve been gone I’m not sure why you seem to take great delight in defending someone whom you believe shouldn’t be here anyway


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[fredtoast]

(03-01-2018, 06:23 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: But since you’re not satisfied and think Marvin should’ve been gone I’m not sure why you seem to take great delight in defending someone whom you believe shouldn’t be here anyway

I don't let my disappointment with a coach turn my brain off.

It is embarrassing the way people will just make stuff up and sometimes even contradict themselves just to criticize everything Marvin does.

It is a logical fallicy to argue that just because Marvin has not won a playoff game that every single move he makes is wrong, and there are too many people around here who try to use this argument.

[BenZoo2]

(03-01-2018, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't let my disappointment with a coach turn my brain off.

It is embarrassing the way people will just make stuff up and sometimes even contradict themselves just to criticize everything Marvin does.

It is a logical fallicy to argue that just because Marvin has not won a playoff game that every single move he makes is wrong, and there are too many people around here who try to use this argument.

I don't either.

And I don't find it embarrassing how people criticize marv.  That's on them.  This is a fan message board and folks are entitled to their opinions.

And not every moves he makes is wrong.  Or right.  No coach can claim that.  I'm glad I aim most of my vitriol at ebenezer, he's far more deserving.  But I think Marvin could improve his game management, some of his challenges seem a little dubious to me and he could instill a little more discipline into this team.  His condescending press conferences are annoying.

Now find some stats to prove me wrong

[BengalChris]

(02-25-2018, 10:46 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The fastest guy at the combine, intimidated by speed? 

He played in the Pac 12, where defense is optional.

Willie Jackson is almost as fast and much bigger.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2018, 12:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You do realize that Ross was probably not motivated to include the things he was doing wrong in that practice video, right?

Of course I do, but to say he wasn't showing anything in practice is now false.  And Marvin obviously saw this when he was keeping him on the bench and watching the rest of our offense struggle.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2018, 03:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The only people that ity got of Ross's back are the ones ignorant about how football practice works.

1.  Ross did nothing but run basic routes.
2.  He did not have to read any defense or make any route adjustments.
3.  He edited out all the mistakes he made.

4. He dusted first round corners with his speed that no one else on the team possesses.
5. He makes one or two of those deep catches in a game, the safeties drop which could help open up the run game. 
6. The team might actually give the appearance of trying to improve.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2018, 06:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league he still wins more than he loses against other NFL coaches.

What a BS crutch.  Being handicapped as a coach is what Hue has in Cleveland:  A roster devoid of talent.  There are a lot of coaches that would have switched rosters with Marvin over the years in a heartbeat.  Blaming the owner is just a weak excuse.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2018, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is embarrassing the way people will just make stuff up and sometimes even contradict themselves just to criticize everything Marvin does.

Criticize everything he does?  C'mon, Fred.  I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating.  

My biggest knocks on Marv from taking the team to the next level are simple:

1.) He rarely goes with the younger player if there is a veteran in that spot as well.  AJ Green and Dalton had no one to push out, so stop using that as an example.  Burfict is the best player on the defense (IMHO) and he was on the bench until an injury forced him on the field.  Gio started more than Hill and got more opportunities early in Hill's rookie season  while everyone seems to use Hill's rookie season as a time where he played a rookie, and let's face it:  it is a little different with RBs.  

2.) He is horrible at clock management.  15 years and still no semblance of a two minute offense.  

3.) Too conservative.  If Marv somehow found himself with a 21 point lead against pitt, like Jax had in the playoffs, he would take his foot off the gas, when Jax ended up needing 45 points to win.  I hate that part the most about Marv.  Brady says they don't even look at the scoreboard, they try to score every drive.  You simply can't say that about Marv.  

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2018, 09:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 3.) Too conservative.  If Marv somehow found himself with a 21 point lead against pitt, like Jax had in the playoffs, he would take his foot off the gas, when Jax ended up needing 45 points to win.  I hate that part the most about Marv.  Brady says they don't even look at the scoreboard, they try to score every drive.  You simply can't say that about Marv.  

Marvin Lewis has never once in his 15 years as Bengal head coach lost a game because he played too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But he did lose a game by trying to be too aggressivce with a lead late in the game. (Tampa Bay '10)

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2018, 09:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 1.) He rarely goes with the younger player if there is a veteran in that spot as well.

I see I am going to have to keep posting this over and over again.

Marvin plays rookies as much as the average NFL coach.  Most NFL coaches play vets over rookies.


According to profootballreference over the last ten years there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games. 


When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2018, 11:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin Lewis has never once in his 15 years as Bengal head coach lost a game because he played too conservative with a lead in the second half.

But he did lose a game by trying to be too aggressivce with a lead late in the game. (Tampa Bay '10)

How can you prove that to be true?

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2018, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: How can you prove that to be true?

I have repeatedly ask everyone here for an example and so far no one has been able to.

How can everyone claim it is true and yet never be able to provide even one example of when it happened?  That makes no sense to me. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2018, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have repeatedly ask everyone here for an example and so far no one has been able to.

How can everyone claim it is true and yet never be able to provide even one example of when it happened?  That makes no sense to me. 

It's something that can't really be "proven" to be true or false.
Fans have just seen the Bengals offense sputter out in the second half of games, so that's their evidence. The second half stats have been posted repeatedly on this board before, so I'm not going to go collect them all again.
Can it be 100% proven that the issue is Marvin being conservative compared to failed execution? Probably not, but fans have just visually observed the sputtering and believe it's Marvin's approach since it's been a trend for many years under Marvin.