Which team has been more successful?

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2018, 01:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: Mediocre Merv is the most accurate moniker ever bestowed on any of the collection characters in this comedy of errors in the history of these boards.

His record is mediocre, but he has been handicapped by working for the worst owner in the league.

A horse finishing middle of the pack in a race is mediocre.  A horse finishing middle of the pack in a race with a 250 lb jockey is much better than mediocre.

[Bengalholic]

(03-09-2018, 02:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is a very accurate depiction of the Marvin Lewis era.  Although I would add a couple of stats that make them look a little better.

Total wins vs teams that made playoffs 12 of 32
Total wins vs teams that had winning record 6 of 32

I feel that Marvin deserves a lot of credit for attaining even these slightly above average results while handicapped by the worst owner in the league, but even I felt he should have been fired after last season.

But just because I felt he should have been fired I am not going to let people criticize him for things that are not true.

I've said many times over the years that Marvin deserves a ton of credit for bringing this organization out of the dark ages and putting together rosters that could contend. I think he's been a decent regular season coach for the most part, all things considered. However, I also thinks it's been demonstrated that he has very obvious limitations that hamper him like big stage preparation and player discipline, among other things.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-09-2018, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have talked before about how silly it was to try and make an argument by claiming that a certain game or season never existed.  But trying to act like an entire one-third of a career never happened is just ridiculous.

I wasn't "pretending it didn't exist", I was showing proof that the run was kinda fluky. We had a hot stretch in the draft and developed a nice core, but we couldn't do much with it, and the success has since dried up. The consistent success you spoke of hasn't really been all that consistent.

[*Go Cards*]

(03-09-2018, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Nobody remembers post season games except the Super Bowl.

I know you can just google it too cheat, but you honestly can't tell me the other first round games the year the Bengals lost to the Chargers.

True 


Pretty sure team B went further than first round though and do recall both NFC , AFC Championship game teams.

[*Go Cards*]

(03-09-2018, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I specifically picked these two teams to see how much fans weighed 3 playoff wins (with no Super Bowl appearances) against  50 extra regular season wins, 4 fewer losing seasons, and four more playoff appearances.

Team B was 4 points away from going to SB and knocked the steelers out to advance to that AFC Championship game. 

Still calling it a draw with team A having better seasons but team B having way more success in playoffs.

If we factored in who team A lost to in playoffs (back up QB) and blowing impossible lead to lose game against arch rival by making multiple mental mistakes. I may have to lean toward team B. 

Sticking with a draw though. 

[*Go Cards*]

Still love my Bengals and never jumping ship and guessing I will never live up to your expectations of what a fan should be. Can live with that though per knowing how loyal I have been for 50 years.

But if being held captive and had to bet which team had the better chance at winning a SB or going further this year. Who would you bet your life on ?

The Jags team B, or the Bengals team A ?

Because living in the past is no fun which is why you chose 15 years instead of 20, 30, 40, or 50.

[*Go Cards*]

Have to go to work but this is my last say to people who think fans should just except everything and be a rah rah cheerleader.

It is like being a parent and your adult kid does something you do not agree with and believe it to be detrimental to their future.

Do you A… say I love you no matter what and just stay your course and lifes lessons will guide you ?

or

Do you B … offer advice on what you believe will help them along their path in life while explaining you still love them no matter what but believe this other route to be better for their future ?

I think the B is the more loving parent even though they had to disagree with their adult child.

Believe it to be the same with fans and the ones that toe the company line are wrong. No matter the team.

But still love them too. As well as all Bengals fans who have stuck it out through the trying times we have faced. The weak are not around anymore and all cope differently.

Rock On Bengals fans !

[Hoofhearted]

(03-09-2018, 02:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wasn't "pretending it didn't exist", I was showing proof that the run was kinda fluky. We had a hot stretch in the draft and developed a nice core, but we couldn't do much with it, and the success has since dried up. The consistent success you spoke of hasn't really been all that consistent.

IKR. Someone made a thread comparing two out of 32 teams but you can't take out certain variables to prove your point. 

[BengalChris]

(03-09-2018, 02:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wasn't "pretending it didn't exist", I was showing proof that the run was kinda fluky. We had a hot stretch in the draft and developed a nice core, but we couldn't do much with it, and the success has since dried up. The consistent success you spoke of hasn't really been all that consistent.

Yes, our drafts have not been as good as they were. There was a streak of good drafts. After 2012 the drafts have been more or less average to not very good. While they look good at the time, they just haven't turned out very good.

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2018, 03:13 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote:

IKR. Someone made a thread comparing two out of 32 teams but you can't take out certain variables to prove your point. 

I don't think you get it.

I chose just two teams because I was specifically measuring the way people value playoff wins against regular season success.  The ONLY way to do that was to pick two different teams that had varying levels of success in the regular season and post season.

If I had listed all 32 teams then every single person would have chosen the Patriots and that would not have proven anything.

Understand now?

[Shake n Blake]

(03-09-2018, 03:12 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Have to go to work but this is my last say to people who think fans should just except everything and be a rah rah cheerleader.

It is like being a parent and your adult kid does something you do not agree with and believe it to be detrimental to their future.

Do you A… say I love you no matter what and just stay your course and lifes lessons will guide you ?

or

Do you B … offer advice on what you believe will help them along their path in life while explaining you still love them no matter what but believe this other route to be better for their future ?

I think the B is the more loving parent even though they had to disagree with their adult child.

Believe it to be the same with fans and the ones that toe the company line are wrong. No matter the team.  

But still love them too. As well as all Bengals fans who have stuck it out through the trying times we have faced. The weak are not around anymore and all cope differently.

Rock On Bengals fans !

Hall of Fame post right here. 

(03-09-2018, 04:16 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yes, our drafts have not been as good as they were. There was a streak of good drafts. After 2012 the drafts have been more or less average to not very good. While they look good at the time, they just haven't turned out very good.

Yep. This team has been living off the 2010 and 2011 drafts for a long time. We haven't been nearly as fortunate since, and MB did not try to capitalize by hiring a new HC or taking some real swings in FA. 

[BengalChris]

(03-09-2018, 08:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Hall of Fame post right here. 


Yep. This team has been living off the 2010 and 2011 drafts for a long time. We haven't been nearly as fortunate since, and MB did not try to capitalize by hiring a new HC or taking some real swings in FA. 

There aren't any swings by the GM in free agency. He goes up there and tries to bunt while shaking in fear that he might get hit by the ball.

[HuDey]

(03-09-2018, 11:08 AM)PhilHos Wrote: And what was Team B crowned with? 

Absolutely nothing.

But, given that the question was “Which team has been more successful?”, I had no good option available, so I went with the one that clearly came closer to what should be the goal of every NFL franchise, winning the Super Bowl.

[Steve]

(03-08-2018, 09:10 PM)Thundercloud Wrote: I see what you're doing here Fred, and I clearly see the Bengals record.

However, it really doesn't matter to me.  I have no choice about who my team is.  It's the Bengals, because I can't quit 'em. I love 'em, even though it doesn't make much sense sometimes.

me too.....
I'm a lifer no matter what....
i'll be the last one off the bus....

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Obviously team B. The goal of the franchise is to win the Super Bowl. The closer you get to that goal, the more successful you are.

[GodFather]

(03-08-2018, 07:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As a fan which team would you rather have rooted for over the last 15 years.  Neither team has made it to the Super Bowl

Team "A"... 125-112-3 ... 5 losing seasons ... 7 playoff seasons ... 0-7 playoff record
Team "B"...  97-143-0  ... 9 losing seasons ... 3 playoff seasons ... 3-3 playoff record

I'd rather have  Team "C"... 198-58.. 0 losing seasons... 15 playoff seasons...24-9 playoff record  4 Super Bowl Victories

[t3r3e3]

(03-08-2018, 07:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As a fan which team would you rather have rooted for over the last 15 years.  Neither team has made it to the Super Bowl

Team "A"... 125-112-3 ... 5 losing seasons ... 7 playoff seasons ... 0-7 playoff record
Team "B"...  97-143-0  ... 9 losing seasons ... 3 playoff seasons ... 3-3 playoff record

Team B is currently a legitimate threat to win it all, and almost represented th AFC in the Super Bowl. They’re loaded on d, and are a decent QB from being a favorite.

Team A has never been a legitimate threat to win a title because of their conservative style that does not maximize opportunity. Their hostorical ineptitude in the Playoffs Bears this out.

I’d much rather pull for Team B if the teams were neutral, but sadly, I’m a Bengals fan.

[*bfine32*]

Seems folks are jumping through hoops to say "Not the Bengals". The question was which team would you have rather rooted for in the last 15 years, Not all the other things folks are adding.

[SunsetBengal]

Neither team, they both suck. Give me a Championship, dammit!

[CornerBlitz]

Team B hypothetically could have won the Super Bowl such as Philly. I'll take that any day of the week.