Why I am not happy about the Cordy Glenn trade

[YsCascadia]

I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick. Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder. When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG. I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd. Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician. Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well. Yet we took Dre for some reason. I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well. I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line. Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along. Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft. Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection. He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense. For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant. The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

[*Go Cards*]

(03-31-2018, 01:43 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick.  Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder.  When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG.  I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd.  Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician.  Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well.  Yet we took Dre for some reason.  I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).  

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well.  I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line.  Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.  

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along.  Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft.  Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection.  He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense.  For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant.  The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

We would have not paid DeCastro just like they did with Zeitler who was a fine guard as well. 

Bad philosophy that hopefully has changed as of late. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-31-2018, 01:43 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick.  Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder.  When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG.  I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd.  Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician.  Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well.  Yet we took Dre for some reason.  I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).  

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well.  I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line.  Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.  

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along.  Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft.  Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection.  He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense.  For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant.  The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

Yeah, we would of let DeCastro go just like we did Zeit and DeCastro would not get away with holding like he does in Pitt here.

Also if we did what you said here PA would probably still be here and we would be screwed cause these guys are polished and
those are the only type of O-lineman that PA has done well with. I like how it played out, now we have Pollack and Glenn and
are looking to draft a top Center.

Hurst and Ragnow/Price would be fine with me though. As long as we get one of these two i will be happy.

[YsCascadia]

(03-31-2018, 02:07 PM)Go Cards Wrote: We would have not paid DeCastro just like they did with Zeitler who was a fine guard as well. 

Bad philosophy that hopefully has changed as of late. 

I agree that we would not have paid DeCastro which is where the frustration comes from.

As I said I like Dre Kirkpatrick.  He is OK at what he does.  However, I do see him as one of the weak links in the secondary.  I don't know why we would keep him when we could have kept Zeitler.  I did not have an issue witht he Zeitler pick, if he was their guy.  I just would have liked us to get Zeitler and Glenn or DeCastro instead of Dre.

Then keep the best out of those 2 OGs if we couldn't keep both.

[YsCascadia]

(03-31-2018, 02:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, we would of let DeCastro go just like we did Zeit and DeCastro would not get away with holding like he does in Pitt here.

Also if we did what you said here PA would probably still be here and we would be screwed cause these guys are polished and
those are the only type of O-lineman that PA has done well with. I like how it played out, now we have Pollack and Glenn and
are looking to draft a top Center.

Hurst and Ragnow/Price would be fine with me though. As long as we get one of these two i will be happy.

Yes, getting rid of PA was the highlight of the off season for me.  I like what Pollack has done in Houston and Dallas so he should be able to rehabilitate our OLine.

However, I would theorize that had we had done any combination of Zeit, DeCastro or Glenn, then we may have actually won a Play off game or 2 and who knows possibly a SB.

A line that has bookends Whitworth and Smith with the OG being any of those 3 would have given Dalton more time in the pocket as well as making our RBs more successful.  The following year we picked up Eifert and Bernard and that would have been where our Post season success truly began.  We would have had AJ Green, Eifert, Bernard, Sanu and Jones Jr, with Dalton having the time to plan his retirement during each snap.  We would have had this for 3-4 years.

I agree that getting an OC in the 2nd round is more ideal than trying to get one in the 1st.  If you ask 10 different people who the best OC is in this draft, you would get 10 different answers.  If you ask those people to name the best TE they will give you Hayden Hurst.

[treee]

(03-31-2018, 04:00 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I agree that we would not have paid DeCastro which is where the frustration comes from.

As I said I like Dre Kirkpatrick.  He is OK at what he does.  However, I do see him as one of the weak links in the secondary.  I don't know why we would keep him when we could have kept Zeitler.  I did not have an issue witht he Zeitler pick, if he was their guy.  I just would have liked us to get Zeitler and Glenn or DeCastro instead of Dre.

Then keep the best out of those 2 OGs if we couldn't keep both.

I don't think you'll find a single fan on here who agrees with the FO's choice to pay Kirkpatrick and not Zeitler. That was pants-on-head stupid.

[BoomerFan]

Highlights the problem that has been going on for a long time. It isn't that we are cheap -- we pay out roughly as much as other teams. It is that we are overpaying the wrong players. We paid Maualaga too much, Michael Johnson too much, and arguably Dre K too much (though in another sense our need for corners is real and I'm more glad he's here than most -- for now). Spend some money on the Oline and maybe the defense could be on the field less and demand a smaller payroll.

[Jpoore]

No thank you on Hurst period.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-31-2018, 04:12 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Yes, getting rid of PA was the highlight of the off season for me.  I like what Pollack has done in Houston and Dallas so he should be able to rehabilitate our OLine.

However, I would theorize that had we had done any combination of Zeit, DeCastro or Glenn, then we may have actually won a Play off game or 2 and who knows possibly a SB.

A line that has bookends Whitworth and Smith with the OG being any of those 3 would have given Dalton more time in the pocket as well as making our RBs more successful.  The following year we picked up Eifert and Bernard and that would have been where our Post season success truly began.  We would have had AJ Green, Eifert, Bernard, Sanu and Jones Jr, with Dalton having the time to plan his retirement during each snap.  We would have had this for 3-4 years.

I agree that getting an OC in the 2nd round is more ideal than trying to get one in the 1st.  If you ask 10 different people who the best OC is in this draft, you would get 10 different answers.  If you ask those people to name the best TE they will give you Hayden Hurst.

Lots of ways we could of went and done better that is for sure, but we are here now and i think we still have a shot if we
get a top tier Center and the OT positions improve. Sounds like this is the route we are going and with Pollack i have some
faith that even the worst players on the O-line will improve.

Need to study up more on Hurst and the TE's, the one i watched specifically last year that i was impressed with was Mark
Andrews but he is not a good blocker which is something our coaches seem to always want in our TE's.

How is Hurst blocking wise?

[SunsetBengal]

(03-31-2018, 06:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lots of ways we could of went and done better that is for sure, but we are here now and i think we still have a shot if we
get a top tier Center and the OT positions improve. Sounds like this is the route we are going and with Pollack i have some
faith that even the worst players on the O-line will improve.

Need to study up more on Hurst and the TE's, the one i watched specifically last year that i was impressed with was Mark
Andrews but he is not a good blocker which is something our coaches seem to always want in our TE's.

How is Hurst blocking wise?

Check out his draft profile.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/hayden-hurst?id=2560072

[BengalsRocker]

Shit dude I'm not even sure ol' Cordy is fan-worthy until he shows something in stripes.

I'm not hyping a single damn new player signed until I see some results.

Show me Bengals.

Show me !!!

[YsCascadia]

(03-31-2018, 06:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lots of ways we could of went and done better that is for sure, but we are here now and i think we still have a shot if we
get a top tier Center and the OT positions improve. Sounds like this is the route we are going and with Pollack i have some
faith that even the worst players on the O-line will improve.

Need to study up more on Hurst and the TE's, the one i watched specifically last year that i was impressed with was Mark
Andrews but he is not a good blocker which is something our coaches seem to always want in our TE's.

How is Hurst blocking wise?

He is acceptable as a blocker.  At lot like Gronkowski and Eifert is, but not Reggie Kelly.  His strength to me is him not shying away from contact, he isn't afraid to truck someone over.  He also has great hands and will fight for the ball.  I see him and Eifert to be about the same as far as caliber of player. 

The real question mark is how long can he last?  Will he go down like Eifert has?  Or will he be a bit more durable? 

Now if Eifert and Hurst stay healthy, then we can expect a great season this year and we will have Hurst next year if Eifert doesn't resign here.

[PikesPeakUC]

(03-31-2018, 07:16 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: He is acceptable as a blocker.  At lot like Gronkowski and Eifert is, but not Reggie Kelly.  His strength to me is him not shying away from contact, he isn't afraid to truck someone over.  He also has great hands and will fight for the ball.  I see him and Eifert to be about the same as far as caliber of player. 

The real question mark is how long can he last?  Will he go down like Eifert has?  Or will he be a bit more durable? 

Now if Eifert and Hurst stay healthy, then we can expect a great season this year and we will have Hurst next year if Eifert doesn't resign here.

One thing that bums me out is that Hurst will be 25 when the season starts. Other than that, I think he'd probably be my number two or three tight end this year.

[YsCascadia]

(03-31-2018, 10:09 PM)PikesPeakUC Wrote: One thing that bums me out is that Hurst will be 25 when the season starts. Other than that, I think he'd probably be my number two or three tight end this year.

I am not one to buy into the age thing.  Mainly due to the fact that most players don't stay on a team for more than 3-4 years.  So him being 25 is a non-issue.  I do have injury concerns, but I have that with any player that we draft.

Eifert is a great example, he was younger and didn't have many injuries in college, but has been seemingly made of glass throughout his career.  I am impressed that he signed the deal he did as that shows character from a player to realize that he didn't really earn his rookie contract and is willing to give it one more year.

As to him being the number 2 or 3.  He was considered a top prospect last year in a deep class of TEs, so I don't know how he could be so low on your list in a class of weak candidates, however that is your analysis.  Most of the experts have him as the top guy and the 2nd guy isn't close.

[SadFaceBengal15]

Tight end not once imho became a problem last season and Eifert I think played half a snap. I think TE needs to be addressed but idk about in the first man.

[Bilbo Saggins]

You can be angry in 20/20 hindsight and still be happy about the Glenn trade.  How was the trade, in and of itself, a bad thing?  What does that trade have to do with Kirkpatrick or DeCastro?

[Steve]

(03-31-2018, 01:43 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick.  Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder.  When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG.  I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd.  Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician.  Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well.  Yet we took Dre for some reason.  I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).  

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well.  I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line.  Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.  

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along.  Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft.  Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection.  He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense.  For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant.  The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

I was not against your post/rant until you said you wanted us to take a TE in rd #1.....
how about .....hell no.....!!!
you're 1 yr late w/ this idea....we should of picked a TE last yr w/ O.J. Howard.....not WR Ross...
this year we should pick an O-line player...I prefer Hernandez at 21.....
rd #2 an OC
rd 3 LB & FS

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-31-2018, 01:43 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am putting this here as it pertains to the draft, at least a couple of drafts ago.

2012.

We had 2 1st round picks courtesy of Oakland and we had huge need at OLine.

We take Dre Kirkpatrick with our 1st pick.  Trade back with NE to pick up an extra 3rd rounder.  When our 2nd 1st round pick is in we pick up Kevin Zeitler.

Now before the draft I wanted us to go back to back OG.  I wanted us to take David DeCastro 1st and then Cordy Glenn with our 2nd.  Our OLine would have looked like this:

LT- Andrew Whitworth
LG- Cordy Glenn
C- Kyle Cook (who was solid and serviceable)
RG- David DeCastro
RT- Andre Smith

The knock on DeCastro was that he may not be as strong as other OGs and he is more of a technician.  Glenn's knock was that he didn't have the technician abilities or the right footwork at the NFL level.

This line would have been together for at while as well.  Yet we took Dre for some reason.  I don't dislike Dre, but he hasn't been overly impressive to me and I believe we could have had a better player in DeCastro (who is still playing for the Steelers).  

Kevin Zeitler was considered a strong OG prospect as he combined DeCastro and Glenn abilities, which is fine if we had selected one of the 2 as well.  I mean you could take out Glenn or DeCastro and add Zeitler at either spot and it would still be a formidable line.  Yet we let Zeitler go in FA to the Browns while keeping the inconsistent play of Dre.  

It can be infuriating to see a move like the one we made to bring Glenn here when we could have had him all along.  Now knowing that he can play LT it is even more frustrating as he could have been the heir to Whitworth instead of rolling the dice with Ogbuehi.

Now for the tidbit of this years draft.  Let us go with Hayden Hurst for our 1st round selection.  He would be insurance to Tyler Eifert and if Eifert can stay healthy another weapon for the Offense.  For our OLine needs I would address them later as there are a plethora of OCs that will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  The talent differences between the top TE and the rest is significant.  The level between the OCs is less so.

I would hate to see us pass on Hurst and have Eifert go down or even leave after the end of the season and us have to rely on Kroft (who would be a good 3rd TE) or Uzomah (who shouldn't make the team).

You're joking, right? 

[PikesPeakUC]

(04-01-2018, 10:21 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: I am not one to buy into the age thing.  Mainly due to the fact that most players don't stay on a team for more than 3-4 years.  So him being 25 is a non-issue.  I do have injury concerns, but I have that with any player that we draft.

Eifert is a great example, he was younger and didn't have many injuries in college, but has been seemingly made of glass throughout his career.  I am impressed that he signed the deal he did as that shows character from a player to realize that he didn't really earn his rookie contract and is willing to give it one more year.

As to him being the number 2 or 3.  He was considered a top prospect last year in a deep class of TEs, so I don't know how he could be so low on your list in a class of weak candidates, however that is your analysis.  Most of the experts have him as the top guy and the 2nd guy isn't close.

I just like Goedert more, to be honest. I think he's got more room to grow as a player. Nothing much against Hurst at all. He'll be a fine player. 

[grampahol]

It really doesn't make a bit of difference what this team did or didn't do in years past. That's over and done with . The only thing I'm really concerned about at this point is what they do moving forward. You can't undo the past and griping about it gets you exactly nothing. 
Now, if they continue to  make the same stupid moves and keep tying money up with sub par players there may just come a point where I stop being a Bengals fan, but I've visited that idea more than a few times and yet I'm still a Bengals fan. 
One question we all have to answer to ourselves is who's stupider? The Bengals for doing what they do or us for us for still being fans of this team? Since most of us don't really want to acknowledge being stupider than the team ownership that leaves us wondering who's making millions of dollars and who is just a fan of the stupid team?  Geeez.. It's a half dozen of one or six of the other, huh? It's like being in love with some really hot woman who you know is out there screwing all your friends and sitting there saying, "But I love her and like being the goddamned fool everyone is laughing at behind my back .."  That pretty much sums up being a Bengals fan..