The QB position

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 01:29 AM)jowczarski Wrote: RG3 is the backup in Baltimore (veteran). Landry Jones is the backup in Pittsburgh (veteran).
Matt Barkley is the backup in Cincinnati (veteran).

The drafting of Jackson/Rudolph had nothing to do with "if Flacco/Roethlisberger get injured."

And frankly, if any starting QB gets injured for more than a game or two, that team is more often than not screwed. Currently, the Bengals want to see if Driskel can be their next McCarron. If not, they've got Barkley.

Do you mean, 6 games started, 8 TDs / 14 INTs, Matt Barkley? Have you seen that dudes hair? o_o

All seriousness aside, Luke Falk may not end up being better than Driskel and Barkley, but i'd rather have him in a pinch than the other two. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where is Dalton going this year?

Nowhere. But the Bengals addressed the CB position this year and the last couple years. I feel pretty comfortable with the backups there. 

I'd feel more comfortable with a guy like Falk as the backup this year. Driskel is too unknown and looks more like a 3rd string at this point and Barkley throws the ball to the other team too much.

Falk may not be any better. But the effort wasn't even there to attempt to upgrade the backup QB position. 

[Shake n Blake]

(04-30-2018, 02:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Wait marvin is our QB coach?

If you don't think the Head Coach has any affect on a QB, you know zilch about football. Take a look at Sean McVay with Jared Goff, who looked like a bust under Jeff Fisher. Look at Belichick. Look at how Pederson got the best out of Foles. Look at how teams hire great offensive minds to work with their QB's. 

[Joelist]

We have a new OC, new QB coach, new OL coach and have already added new starters at Center and LT on the OL. All of this impacts the QB. So it will b e interesting to see what develops.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 03:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote:  Driskel is too unknown 

That is the entire key to the discussion.  Neither of us have any idea what type of QB Driskel is right now.

The Bengals are the only ones who know.  So it depends on how much you trust our coaches judgment, and if you don't trust the coaches then you would not trust the player they took in the draft.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 04:10 PM)Joelist Wrote: We have a new OC, new QB coach, new OL coach and have already added new starters at Center and LT on the OL. All of this impacts the QB. So it will b e interesting to see what develops.

I don't have a lot of faith in Eifert being healthy all season, but if he is he is a game changer.

Ross could also be a nice new addition.

Lots of talent on this offense, but at this point still too many "ifs".  I don't think there will be any major player additions.  So a lot of this "ifs" will be there until we start playing. 

There will be much written about all these "ifs".  By insiders and outsiders.  By professionals and amatures.  But none of us will know for sure until they start playing.

[J24]

(04-30-2018, 04:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you don't think the Head Coach has any affect on a QB, you know zilch about football. Take a look at Sean McVay with Jared Goff, who looked like a bust under Jeff Fisher. Look at Belichick. Look at how Pederson got the best out of Foles. Look at how teams hire great offensive minds to work with their QB's. 

The Rams also signed a lot of impact players last off season that made Goff and Gurly a lot better. Also the Eagles had a lot of good players on their roster this year as well and that Helped both Went and Foles this year.  Point talent matters more than coaching. If we had Marvin Jones, Andrew Whitworth, a healthy Eifert and Zietler our offense is still just as good as it was in 15 no matter who was our coordinator.

[*PhilHos*]

(04-30-2018, 03:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: back to the ProBowl

Hell, yeah, he is.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-30-2018, 05:09 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The Rams also signed a lot of impact players last off season that made Goff and Gurly a lot better. Also the Eagles had a lot of good players on their roster this year as well and that Helped both Went and Foles this year.  Point talent matters more than coaching. If we had Marvin Jones, Andrew Whitworth, a healthy Eifert and Zietler our offense is still just as good as it was in 15 no matter who was our coordinator.

Man if you think signing Whit impacted the Rams more than bringing in McVay, I don't know what to tells ya. System matters. Talk to any Rams fan and ask him to choose between McVay and whatever guys they signed in the offseason. It takes more than a couple FA signings to get rid of the stink of a bad team. If talent were the main issue, every team that splurged in FA would turn it around. But the FA winner rarely turns it around.

Instead, usually when you see a massive turnaround from one season to the next, it almost always involves a coaching change.

Andy Reid to KC
Jim Harbaugh to SF
Doug Pederson to Philly
Sean McVay to the Rams
Zimmer to Minny

This isn't coincidence. Sure, you need talent, but a good or bad coach can make or break talent.

[J24]

(04-30-2018, 07:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Man if you think signing Whit impacted the Rams more than bringing in McVay, I don't know what to tells ya. System matters. Talk to any Rams fan and ask him to choose between McVay and whatever guys they signed in the offseason. It takes more than a couple FA signings to get rid of the stink of a bad team. If talent were the main issue, every team that splurged in FA would turn it around. But the FA winner rarely turns it around.

Instead, usually when you see a massive turnaround from one season to the next, it almost always involves a coaching change.

Andy Reid to KC
Jim Harbaugh to SF
Doug Pederson to Philly
Sean McVay to the Rams
Zimmer to Minny

This isn't coincidence. Sure, you need talent, but a good or bad coach can make or break talent.

It's a players league all pro sports are. If you add all pros to your team you will get better dramatically. Free agency is overrated because teams spend out ragious money on average players because great players like that usually never reach the open market... That's off topic though great players make great coaches  though.

[phil413]

There was no middle class to the rookie pool, and they didn't want to spend money on a vet. They spent money and picks to restock the defense, improve the line and give Andy a few weapons.

Who knows how the FO is actually structured, but Marvin is tied to Andy. If they ever move on from both, they may bring in a new battery all together to do it clean. Hopefully they've created a nucleus that stays healthy and the playmakers and D take them beyond just the hopes of a playoff win.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. That is the entire key to the discussion.  Neither of us have any idea what type of QB Driskel is right now.

The Bengals are the only ones who know.  2. So it depends on how much you trust our coaches judgment, and if you don't trust the coaches then you would not trust the player they took in the draft.

1. Agreed. If Driskel turns out to be ok, great. 

2. Not necessarily. If i watch a player in college and feel that he's better than what i've seen on the Bengals, how much i trust the Bengals coaches doesn't factor into my feelings.

[CornerBlitz]

(04-30-2018, 10:48 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It's a players league all pro sports are. If you add all pros to your team you will get better dramatically. Free agency is overrated because teams spend out ragious money on average players because great players like that usually never reach the open market... That's off topic though great players make great coaches  though.

They both go hand in hand. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Coaches and system make just as much of a difference than the talent you have on your squad. 

For me the thing that makes the most difference out of anything is having an elite QB. Guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Manning make much more of an impact than a particular coach or another elite player at a different position. 

Very rarely do these elite QBs play for multiple teams but when they do they tend to elevate the team. Perfect example was Manning going to Denver or Favre going to the Vikings.

[sandwedge]

(05-01-2018, 03:15 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. Agreed. If Driskel turns out to be ok, great. 

2. Not necessarily. If i watch a player in college and feel that he's better than what i've seen on the Bengals, how much i trust the Bengals coaches doesn't factor into my feelings.

Not exactly sure what games of WSU you watched, I pretty much watch them all here in Washington, but Falk is strictly a scheme QB, that usually disappears against equal or better teams. He'll throw for 6 TDs, over 500yds against Idaho St or Portland St. 
Sorry I'd rather have Driskel over an unknown like Falk...

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-01-2018, 11:48 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Not exactly sure what games of WSU you watched, I pretty much watch them all here in Washington, but Falk is strictly a scheme QB, that usually disappears against equal or better teams. He'll throw for 6 TDs, over 500yds against Idaho St or Portland St. 
Sorry I'd rather have Driskel over an unknown like Falk...

Only what i can find on youtube. Problem is, Driskel is still going to be behind Barkley. 

[fredtoast]

I did not hear that Driskel would be behind barkley.

Here is my favorite Matt Barkley stat.

There are 61 active QBs with at least 250 career pass attempts.  Matt Barkley's career passer rating of 63.7 ranks 60th.  (Thank you DeShone Kizer)

[XenoMorph]

(05-01-2018, 03:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Only what i can find on youtube. Problem is, Driskel is still going to be behind Barkley. 

I'm guessing they will be competing..   Driskel will be behind barkley if hes not healthy.   But  Barkley didn't exactly get a contract gaurenteeing him a spot either

Barkley is suppose to have experience in the style of offense we will be running.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-30-2018, 10:48 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It's a players league all pro sports are. If you add all pros to your team you will get better dramatically. Free agency is overrated because teams spend out ragious money on average players because great players like that usually never reach the open market... That's off topic though great players make great coaches  though.

Every season there's 4 or 5, 6 top level teams. They have a bunch of talent both on and off the field. Great coaching, great plan, good offseason, etc. 

Then every year there's 4 or 5 bottom feeders, not a lot of talent or a ton of injuries to their talent, mixed in with some bad coaching and many other issues.

Then there's the 20 or so teams lumped in the middle. The difference in talent level on these teams is very slight from top to bottom ! Sure one may have better LBers, another better RB's and so on but taken in whole they're pretty close.

Way more often than not what puts teams at the top of the middle 20 and into the playoffs is coaching, game planning, play calling, knowing how to use your roster and exploiting others weakness, knowing who to play where and when and on and on.

There are exceptions to every rule and some team usually breaks the rules every season. The Patriots are a giant outlier to this on the one end and the Browns on the other.

There's little doubt you have to have talent to win. But there's also little doubt you have to have a good plan and good coaching to get the most from the average team. You can't have a roster full of all pro's !

And this isn't basketball, one player - Lebron James - can't win it all for you.

Coaching is the wild card for way more teams than not in football.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 06:32 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Every season there's 4 or 5, 6 top level teams. They have a bunch of talent both on and off the field. Great coaching, great plan, good offseason, etc. 

Then every year there's 4 or 5 bottom feeders, not a lot of talent or a ton of injuries to their talent, mixed in with some bad coaching and many other issues.

Then there's the 20 or so teams lumped in the middle. The difference in talent level on these teams is very slight from top to bottom ! Sure one may have better LBers, another better RB's and so on but taken in whole they're pretty close.

Way more often than not what puts teams at the top of the middle 20 and into the playoffs is coaching, game planning, play calling, knowing how to use your roster and exploiting others weakness, knowing who to play where and when and on and on.

There are exceptions to every rule and some team usually breaks the rules every season. The Patriots are a giant outlier to this on the one end and the Browns on the other.

There's little doubt you have to have talent to win. But there's also little doubt you have to have a good plan and good coaching to get the most from the average team. You can't have a roster full of all pro's !

And this isn't basketball, one player - Lebron James - can't win it all for you.

Coaching is the wild card for way more teams than not in football.

You need good players to win in any sport.  But coaching is more important in football than any other sport.  There are so many different players and their roles are so specialized.  And there is no long flow to the games.  It is 60 to 80 small skirmishes per games with each skirmish being choreographed to the smallest detail.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-30-2018, 10:48 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It's a players league all pro sports are. If you add all pros to your team you will get better dramatically. Free agency is overrated because teams spend out ragious money on average players because great players like that usually never reach the open market... That's off topic though great players make great coaches  though.

Coaching matters in football more than any other professional sport.