D line draft drought finally over?

[Bengalitis]

Dunlap and Atkins will be the next Withworth and Zeitler per the Bengals' tradition with team moves.

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean like taking Malik Jefferson, the athlete, over Shaq Griffin, that tackling machine?

No.  He means the opposite of that.  We drafted Carl Lawson based on his athletic ability, not his production.

We have tried drafting for production over athletic ability before (Roderick Muckleroy, Nick Vigil) and that has not always worked out either.

Good chance Malik has a better NFL career than Shaqueam.

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 12:17 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dunlap and Atkins will be the next Withworth and Zeitler per the Bengals' tradition with team moves.

Tradition?

Yeah, right, Bengals never re-sign their own star players.  Instead they always let them walk and then spend all their money signing free agents away from other teams.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-23-2018, 12:17 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dunlap and Atkins will be the next Withworth and Zeitler per the Bengals' tradition with team moves.

Do you really want to go down that road, again?  Sure, in hindsight, the Bengals should have tried a little harder to hold onto Whitworth.  However, with high draft picks invested in what has turned out to be junk players, they had to see for certain what they had.

Another thing to consider.  All quality teams have to face the bittersweet reality that they simply cannot afford to pay everyone their max market value, and have to watch quality players go to other teams.  That's the sad reality of professional sports.  There's just not enough money in the cap to keep every good player for the duration of his career. 

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2018, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Do you really want to go down that road, again?  Sure, in hindsight, the Bengals should have tried a little harder to hold onto Whitworth.  However, with high draft picks invested in what has turned out to be junk players, they had to see for certain what they had.

Another thing to consider.  All quality teams have to face the bittersweet reality that they simply cannot afford to pay everyone their max market value, and have to watch quality players go to other teams.  That's the sad reality of professional sports.  There's just not enough money in the cap to keep every good player for the duration of his career. 

Bengals had a plan to let an old LT who wanted a ton of guaranteed money for 2 years walk.

Fast forward and play Monday morning QB, the plan failed. If Whitworth stays here and blows his knee, some fan yells what a stupid move signng and paying a premium price for a 35 yard OT. They drafted 2 guys, not one to replace him who failed, it happens. Ask the Browns who have drafted more 1st round QB's this decade than the Bengals have drafted since existence in first 3 rounds of the NFL draft.

[BengalChris]

Good thread Fred!

Hunt was a 2nd round pick though. Three 2nd round picks, three 3rd round picks and a 4th round pick over a 5 year period produced a big dumpster fire for the DL.

It is good that the team finally has this down again.

Now, if we could just get them to draft OTs better.

[BengalChris]

(08-23-2018, 12:17 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dunlap and Atkins will be the next Withworth and Zeitler per the Bengals' tradition with team moves.

I sure hope not. The team has drafted some DEs that will eventually replace Dunlap, but I don't see anyone on the roster who is even close to Atkins.

Releasing Iloka and LaFell does free up some money to extend Atkins and Dunlap. Now if the team will just part with the cash.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-23-2018, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean like taking Malik Jefferson, the athlete, over Shaq Griffin, that tackling machine?

LOL..perfect example

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-23-2018, 12:17 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dunlap and Atkins will be the next Withworth and Zeitler per the Bengals' tradition with team moves.

Do you ever have anything positive to say?

This is a false statement, BTW:

- Leon Hall
- AJ
- Andy
- Whitworth himself

I can go on for days.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-23-2018, 01:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals had a plan to let an old LT who wanted a ton of guaranteed money for 2 years walk.

Fast forward and play Monday morning QB, the plan failed. If Whitworth stays her and blows his knee, some fan yells what a stupid move signng and paying a premium price for a 35 yard OT. They drafted 2 guys, not one to replace him who failed, it happens. Ask the Browns who have drafted more 1st round QB's this decade than the Bengals have drafted since existence in first 3 rounds of the NFL draft.

They had a plan? Perhaps but it was not a good one. It was OBVIOUS that Og was not ready or capable to start at LT. It was a horrible 'plan', there was no need to fast forward on that. Compounding the bad plan was the fact that the NFL in general has a shortage of good OL AND the team knew that Dalton is the type of QB that has a to have good protection and a good running game. A gigantic fail just waiting to happen.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-23-2018, 02:09 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Do you ever have anything positive to say?

This is a false statement, BTW:

- Leon Hall
- AJ
- Andy
- Whitworth himself

I can go on for days.

The Bengals do try and sign their won. I think they do not manage these decisions well - overpaid for Ioka, Rey M , Dre and let a few good ones go for what is now cheap dollars - Whit, Zeitler. 

Yes, every team has a cap and every team has to manage it but it is not just about signing your own. You have to draft well, coach well, develop quickly, determine if a pick will work out quickly and if not discard, fill gaps with free agents, etc. It all has to come together but for this team they do things piece meal. 

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2018, 02:16 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: They had a plan? Perhaps but it was not a good one. It was OBVIOUS that Og was not ready or capable to start at LT. It was a horrible 'plan', there was no need to fast forward on that. Compounding the bad plan was the fact that the NFL in general has a shortage of good OL AND the team knew that Dalton is the type of QB that has a to have good protection and a good running game. A gigantic fail just waiting to happen.

I said it failed. But going off experts and not fan boy wanna be experts in this forum, the experts like both Jake and Ced, they like them a lot. They need not draft them either to play the first year, they drafted to groom them to play year 2. I do not know the future, maybe you do, but I can be a tough evaluator after the fact because I know the facts.

They drafted 2 guys to fill the tackle position, it did not work out, it happens every year with every team at every position. Pats signed Britt and Mathews to fix their WR mess, guess what, both have been cut so that Bill B. guy is a moron...……………..LOL using your failed logic

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-23-2018, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean like taking Malik Jefferson, the athlete, over Shaq Griffin, that tackling machine?

Brother, Walton is the pick you ought to be crying over. We should of taken Shaq there, he was still available...

Malik has great talent, but he is a project we will see.

[*Synric*]

(08-23-2018, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean like taking Malik Jefferson, the athlete, over Shaq Griffin, that tackling machine?

(08-23-2018, 02:09 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: LOL..perfect example

Actually it's not. 

The reason Griffin went in the 5th round is because he was too small to play 3-4 rush backer in the NFL like he did in college. Griffin had to switch to either a 34 inside backer or a 43 outside linebacker. If they had drafted him it would have been due to his freak athleticism and not experience at the position.

Jefferson on the other hand did play WILL and MIKE in college so he has experience and freak athleticisim.


Now if you want to mention that  OT Orlando Brown (I wasn't big on him) was taken a few picks after Jefferson you'd have an arguement. Of course I think it would been rd3 pick 13 for Brown Rd 3 pick 14 for Hubbard because giving Brown free pizza for a year probably wouldn't be the brightset move...

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-23-2018, 03:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Actually it's not. 

The reason Griffin went in the 5th round is because he was too small to play 3-4 rush backer in the NFL like he did in college. Griffin had to switch to either a 34 inside backer or a 43 outside linebacker. If they had drafted him it would have been due to his freak athleticism and not experience at the position.

Jefferson on the other hand did play WILL and MIKE in college so he has experience and freak athleticisim.


Now if you want to mention that  OT Orlando Brown (I wasn't big on him) was taken a few picks after Jefferson you'd have an arguement. Of course I think it would been rd3 pick 13 for Brown Rd 3 pick 14 for Hubbard because giving Brown free pizza for a year probably wouldn't be the brightset move...

The knock on Jefferson was lack of instincts. The knock on Griffin was partly size and partly his hand. The point of the discussion was drafting more 'football instinctive' players are less of the athletes who lack instincts. 

[Socal Bengals fan]

Griffin blew away the competition at the combine. Elite athleticism. And he had the instincts to boot but everybody myself included wasn’t sure how he would do with one hand. Boy do I feel stupid. Guy is a stud.

[*Synric*]

(08-23-2018, 05:32 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Griffin blew away the competition at the combine.  Elite athleticism.   And he had the instincts to boot but everybody myself included wasn’t sure how he would do with one hand. Boy do I feel stupid. Guy is a stud.

Griffin was drafted in the 5th round purely off athleticisim. I can not you can not NFL teams can not tell what kind of instincts he has as an off the ball linebacker because he has never played it before...That is the reason he was drafted the 5th round.

[Bryan]

(08-20-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: For years I have been pointing out that after we got Dunlap and Atkins in 2010 we had a bad stretch of drafting D-linemen (many with high picks)

'11....Dontay Moch in 3rd
'12....Devon Still in 2nd, Brandon Thompson in 3rd
'13....Margus Hunt in 3rd
'14....Will Clark in 3rd
'15....Marcus Hardison in 4th


Then we took Billings in the fourth round of the '16 draft.  One of the most overhyped picks ever by some people here, but it looks like he will develop into a solid player.

In '17 we took Jordan Willis in the 3rd and Carl Lawson in the 4th.  Lawson was an instant impact player.  Willis got a good bit of playing time, but only one sack.  But this year it looks like he has taken that next step that we waited for Still, Hunt, and Clark to make after their rookie seasons.  We also took Glasgow in the fourth and he played a lot of snaps, but that could have just been because we were so thin at DT.

This year we took Hubbard in the 3rd and he is looking good so far.


When you depend on the draft to build your team as much as the Bengals do you just can't miss on as many D-line picks as we did from '11 through '15.  Hopefully we have gotten over that problem. 

Dontay Moch. Man what a disappointment. I remember everyone hyping him up. Dude was never even on the field. Stupid migraines. What makes it even worse is he was taken 4 picks before Justin Houston and 5 picks before DeMarco Murray.

[J24]

(08-23-2018, 09:35 PM)Bryan Wrote: Dontay Moch. Man what a disappointment. I remember everyone hyping him up. Dude was never even on the field. Stupid migraines. What makes it even worse is he was taken 4 picks before Justin Houston and 5 picks before DeMarco Murray.

He had some really good preseasons here but never developed like he should have. 

[pdub2005]

(08-20-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: For years I have been pointing out that after we got Dunlap and Atkins in 2010 we had a bad stretch of drafting D-linemen (many with high picks)

'11....Dontay Moch in 3rd
'12....Devon Still in 2nd, Brandon Thompson in 3rd
'13....Margus Hunt in 3rd
'14....Will Clark in 3rd
'15....Marcus Hardison in 4th


Then we took Billings in the fourth round of the '16 draft.  One of the most overhyped picks ever by some people here, but it looks like he will develop into a solid player.

In '17 we took Jordan Willis in the 3rd and Carl Lawson in the 4th.  Lawson was an instant impact player.  Willis got a good bit of playing time, but only one sack.  But this year it looks like he has taken that next step that we waited for Still, Hunt, and Clark to make after their rookie seasons.  We also took Glasgow in the fourth and he played a lot of snaps, but that could have just been because we were so thin at DT.

This year we took Hubbard in the 3rd and he is looking good so far.


When you depend on the draft to build your team as much as the Bengals do you just can't miss on as many D-line picks as we did from '11 through '15.  Hopefully we have gotten over that problem. 

Hunt was a 2nd rounder