The Defense is Bringing the Team Down

[Millhouse]

Competing against the top teams the defense has to be better. Absolutely, I wont argue that.

But to beat the top teams like the Rams, Chiefs, Saints and Patriots, the offense has to be better even if the defense becomes 'average'.

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-29-2018, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Competing against the top teams the defense has to be better. Absolutely, I wont argue that.

But to beat the top teams like the Rams, Chiefs, Saints and Patriots, the offense has to be better even if the defense becomes 'average'.

Exactly!  The kc game was brutal to watch cause our offense looked bad,and of course the defense couldnt tackle hunt or kelce or whoever else. Then we got up 27-6 at halftime,the rest of the game it felt they put the w in the bag and was disinterested or something. Mixon was being stopped,the offense looked like total crap till the last drive lol

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-29-2018, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Competing against the top teams the defense has to be better. Absolutely, I wont argue that.

But to beat the top teams like the Rams, Chiefs, Saints and Patriots, the offense has to be better even if the defense becomes 'average'.

This is also why im begging them to add another piece to the offense. Are we going to depend on ross to come alive and make catches for us,they dont even target him. It cannot just be the green,boyd,mixon show even though they are good players..there is something missing and its the 3rd receiving option. Plus walton sucks to me,i feel uneasy when hes in, im not even a big fan of gio but cant wait till hes back so nomore walton. We shouldnt of got rid of brian hill.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-29-2018, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Competing against the top teams the defense has to be better. Absolutely, I wont argue that.

But to beat the top teams like the Rams, Chiefs, Saints and Patriots, the offense has to be better even if the defense becomes 'average'.

The one and only way we have a prayer this season is for the offense to put up some major points every game.

[kalibengal]

(10-29-2018, 02:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Jackson was Known as a ball hawk and good hands. He has dropped a lot of picks, some were not easy but like WR's with great hands were very catchable for a CB with his talent.

WJAX 3has been a  it of a let down this yr...I think he has spent too much time reading about how great he is and how he shut down AB. Yesterday he gave up on that bomb he allowed..and later in game ML went over to tell him to get off his ASS on bench, It seem like we have a penchant to draft guys with personality issues . Not saying he has one but, I am starting to think something is up. So far he has been underwhelming at best.  
Switching gears, I like Geno but really all I see is a flash once in while and then its pure silence the rest of the game . I live in LA and Aaron Donald is the real deal at DT. He continuously busts up blocks, beats double teams..he s a legit game wrecker...Geno? not so much.
I think a draft priority next yr is DTs and of course legit NFL ready LBs and go from there. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-29-2018, 01:14 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: I was just going to mention this.  I don't have stats or the incentive to research but I believe Marvin was a good DC.  Not sure why that is.

He was....18 years ago.  The game has changed, Marv hasn't.  He also doesn't have an Ed Reed or Ray Lewis here.  It is just like his overall mindset...very 1995.  Conservative douchebag to the end.  He has no balls.  And I DONT MEAN GOING FOR IT ONCE OR TWICE ON FOURTH DOWN.  Damn, I hate when people throw that out.  

It is just his overall M.O.  Try not to lose.  Never the aggressor.  Always in retreat.  And I F'n hate it.

[bengalguy71]

(10-30-2018, 06:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He was....18 years ago.  The game has changed, Marv hasn't.  He also doesn't have an Ed Reed or Ray Lewis here.  It is just like his overall mindset...very 1995.  Conservative douchebag to the end.  He has no balls.  And I DONT MEAN GOING FOR IT ONCE OR TWICE ON FOURTH DOWN.  Damn, I hate when people throw that out.  

It is just his overall M.O.  Try not to lose.  Never the aggressor.  Always in retreat.  And I F'n hate it.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, but I truly believe Marvin is doing everything HE thinks he can to win.

My beef isn't with Lewis.  My beef is with MB .. and it will always be until he either hires a GM and stays in his office and plays solitaire, or retires/walks away.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-30-2018, 10:59 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, but I truly believe Marvin is doing everything HE thinks he can to win.

My beef isn't with Lewis.  My beef is with MB .. and it will always be until he either hires a GM and stays in his office and plays solitaire, or retires/walks away.

A better GM might do better at what?  Assembling talent?  We have a very talented team already.  And I do agree with your assessment that Marv thinks he is doing all he can, but that is just his nature.  Jeff Fisher thought the same thing.  They are just not equipped for today's game.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2018, 06:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He was....18 years ago.  The game has changed, Marv hasn't.  He also doesn't have an Ed Reed or Ray Lewis here.  It is just like his overall mindset...very 1995.  Conservative douchebag to the end.  He has no balls.  And I DONT MEAN GOING FOR IT ONCE OR TWICE ON FOURTH DOWN.  Damn, I hate when people throw that out.  

It is just his overall M.O.  Try not to lose.  Never the aggressor.  Always in retreat.  And I F'n hate it.

I'd give you a 1,000 reps for this if I could ! WHY DO PEOPLE THINK GOING FOR IT ON FOURTH DOWN = BEING AGGRESSIVE ?

If anything it shows being desperate. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-31-2018, 08:41 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd give you a 1,000 reps for this if I could ! WHY DO PEOPLE THINK GOING FOR IT ON FOURTH DOWN = BEING AGGRESSIVE ?

If anything it shows being desperate. 

Hmmmm.  Don't know if I need the Rep (funny sidebar, I didn't even know what that was for over a year when I first got on this message board).  However, I will offer that it is because they feel like it supports their argument that Marv is not conservative.  

The bottom line (for me) is:  Marv is a very nice man, and he knows how to assemble talent, but he is simply not able to change his stripes and be something he isn't.  He would have been a great coach back in 1970, but he and his unit of coaches are horribly outclassed in today's game.  Other teams look like they are taking candy from a baby.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-31-2018, 08:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Hmmmm.  Don't know if I need the Rep (funny sidebar, I didn't even know what that was for over a year when I first got on this message board).  However, I will offer that it is because they feel like it supports their argument that Marv is not conservative.  

The bottom line (for me) is:  Marv is a very nice man, and he knows how to assemble talent, but he is simply not able to change his stripes and be something he isn't.  He would have been a great coach back in 1970, but he and his unit of coaches are horribly outclassed in today's game.  Other teams look like they are taking candy from a baby.

Indeed

Marvin refuses to accept the fact that the old school field position, rely on your defense, grind out a win just doesn't work in today's game.

We don't average 2.5 points in the 3rd quarter just because we're horribly unlucky, we get out coached ! The opposition adjusts and we have no answer.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-29-2018, 02:39 PM)3wt Wrote: Defensive backfield looks lost out there for sure.


But the biggest problem was that the offense couldn't generate a 1st down for most of the 2nd half.   I think there were 5 straight 3 and outs.  How is a defense supposed to overcome that?

Seems like Tampa Bay came out in the 2nd half and decided that they'd stop the run and make Andy beat them with his arm.  Which he did eventually, but not until the last drive.

Well.....they should have been REALLY rested from the 1st half by that rationale then.....cause the O scored 27 points.  This defense had problems getting off of the field on 3rd last season too.  When you have problems getting off of the field in the 1st half as well as the 2nd half, you can't always blame the offense.  Had Winston not turned the ball over so many times, who knows how many stops they would have had in that 1st half.  I'm willing to wager they score a few times without them, hell, one INT was in the EZ.  It's not like the Bucs weren't moving the ball throughout.  They had nearly 600 total yards.

Dalton had 2 TDs to go along with those rushing TDs.  At some point......this defense has to make at least 2 or 3 stops and quit blowing huge leads.  When you absolutely must score 30-40 points to have a prayer to win.....you have a shitty defense.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 09:00 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Indeed

Marvin refuses to accept the fact that the old school field position, rely on your defense, grind out a win just doesn't work in today's game.

We don't average 2.5 points in the 3rd quarter just because we're horribly unlucky, we get out coached ! The opposition adjusts and we have no answer.

I'd like to add to my response to 3wt, in no way am I excusing our offense's problems in the 3Q.  However, you just CANNOT give up 18 4th qtr points to anyone in this league and expect to win.  The only game they have stepped up when the offense had a bad 1st half was Miami.  I see some scheme problems......but I mostly see the worst LB corps in the entire NFL.....and probably the worst in the top 50 in NCAA.

[bengalguy71]

(10-31-2018, 08:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A better GM might do better at what?  Assembling talent?  We have a very talented team already.  And I do agree with your assessment that Marv thinks he is doing all he can, but that is just his nature.  Jeff Fisher thought the same thing.  They are just not equipped for today's game.

Again, who does that accountability and responsibility fall on?

When I say GM SH, I mean MB be willing to turn every aspect of the team over to the GM and he just sits in his office and signs the paperwork that gets put on his desk approving whatever Katy and the GM want.

That's a pipe dream but when it comes down to it, it's really the only hope IMHO.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-31-2018, 09:27 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'd like to add to my response to 3wt, in no way am I excusing our offense's problems in the 3Q.  However, you just CANNOT give up 18 4th qtr points to anyone in this league and expect to win.  The only game they have stepped up when the offense had a bad 1st half was Miami.  I see some scheme problems......but I mostly see the worst LB corps in the entire NFL.....and probably the worst in the top 50 in NCAA.

Oh I agree Wyche,

If there were 100 points for why a team loses in our case this season the defense would get 75 or 80 of them ! Having said that the only and I mean only chance this team has is for the offense to go balls to the wall every possession. We can't continue laying eggs on offense for the entire 3rd qtr. and first 5 minutes of the 4th.

I remember hearing some announcers last season about week 12 or so saying the Bengals D was the worst Defense in the NFL for giving up 3rd and long.

And we're still the worst ! by a wide margin. It'll be 3rd and 12 and we're playing man and the QB easily runs for first. Then it will be 3rd and 6 and our CB'c are 8 yards from LOS and backpedal 3 steps at the snap offering up the first on a silver platter.

It makes no sense how we get killed so friggin much on 3rd and long.

[CincyKid]

(10-29-2018, 04:44 PM)RASCAL Wrote: why? merv had the talent that a 3rd grader could have coached when he was in baltimore!

Marvin lucked into having Ray Lewis running his D.........it wasn't Marvin

[bengalhoel]

The team is the only things this defense is bring down!! Am I right????

[*ochocincos*]

I think most fans were excited about Austin coming in because of his emphasis on turnovers. However, I think most fans also assumed that the philosophy of limiting yardage and points would have also remained. Unfortunately, that's not really been the case.

Austin was quoted saying..

Quote:#Bengals defensive coordinator Teryl Austin on all the stats and records showing how historically bad the #Bengals D has been:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

So unfortunately, the defense did not go from being stingy on points/yardage and just emphasize turnovers on top of that, but instead Austin's defense foregoes (disregards?) yardage/points for the sake of turnovers.

Quote:Trying to create turnovers can be a risky venture. Bengals players have missed tackles this season when trying to strip the ball rather than secure the tackle. Jumping a route can result in an interception or a long touchdown, and to some extent that is the cost of doing business.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/11/1/18044934/film-room-bengals-defense-reliance-on-turnovers-continued-against-buccaneers

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(10-31-2018, 08:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A better GM might do better at what?  Assembling talent?  We have a very talented team already.  And I do agree with your assessment that Marv thinks he is doing all he can, but that is just his nature.  Jeff Fisher thought the same thing.  They are just not equipped for today's game.

Exactly. A true GM or different owner simply would have let ML walk. Mikey and Marvin are joined at the hip, both with limitations but the combination leads us to the groundhog day we have here. 

[CJD]

Quote from Austin regarding his defense's poor performance, per cincyjungle:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

Holy shit, fire this clown immediately. He doesn't understand that 4 of the 5 wins are because of the offense winning in spite of his dumbass.