The Defense is Bringing the Team Down

[sandwedge]

(11-01-2018, 10:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think most fans were excited about Austin coming in because of his emphasis on turnovers. However, I think most fans also assumed that the philosophy of limiting yardage and points would have also remained. Unfortunately, that's not really been the case.

Austin was quoted saying..

So unfortunately, the defense did not go from being stingy on points/yardage and just emphasize turnovers on top of that, but instead Austin's defense foregoes (disregards?) yardage/points for the sake of turnovers.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/11/1/18044934/film-room-bengals-defense-reliance-on-turnovers-continued-against-buccaneers

I remember that quote from him. I also remember what my exact thought was, this could be bad. 

[mon4078]

(11-01-2018, 11:22 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Quote from Austin regarding his defense's poor performance, per cincyjungle:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

Holy shit, fire this clown immediately. He doesn't understand that 4 of the 5 wins are because of the offense winning in spite of his dumbass.

I agree 100% he is clueless

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-29-2018, 12:39 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I personally believe that we are capable of competing with the top teams in the NFL if our defense could be average at best... but my god they can't even do that.

I don't know whether it's a lack of pass rush sometimes or the missed tackles or what...

This defense looks soooo lost..


What are some trade/free agent acquisitions that could be made to patch some holes?

I'm thinking a Patrick Peterson trade could help the secondary massively and/or a Deonne Bucannon / Haason Reddick... Both are great coverage guys that are quick and we need that really badly.

We just have to hope the coaches can coach up the players we already have. Tackling is the biggest problem with
this Defense right now followed by the coverage of the Linebackers. We have good players and Evans and Vigil
should only improve, same with the other young guys in Billings, Hubbard, Willis, Will Jax, Bates etc.

We will get better no question, how much is the real question.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2018, 11:22 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Quote from Austin regarding his defense's poor performance, per cincyjungle:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

Holy shit, fire this clown immediately. He doesn't understand that 4 of the 5 wins are because of the offense winning in spite of his dumbass.

Well that takes the coaching aspect out of it if this guy is saying shit like this.

I agree, fire this dude now.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2018, 01:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We just have to hope the coaches can coach up the players we already have. Tackling is the biggest problem with
this Defense right now followed by the coverage of the Linebackers. We have good players and Evans and Vigil
should only improve, same with the other young guys in Billings, Hubbard, Willis, Will Jax, Bates etc.

We will get better no question, how much is the real question.

Yeah I totally agree with you. I think the talent is there on defense this year in general but the tackling fundamentals have been poor at times. They seem to be trying to tackle high around the shoulders and that's cause a lot of missed tackles. I assume it is in response to not wanting to get personal fouls, but that's speculation.

The pass coverage from the LB's has been bad as you alluded to.

I think also that our defensive scheme doesn't really seem to align well to the shift in offense/rule changes that the NFL has moved to. Really no teams do, but it looks worse here partly because of circumstances...we have 5 wins, but really all of our games have been close to where we could win or lose except the Chiefs game and we had early leads in several prompting the other teams to pass more. So the stats are skewed some.

That said, we do need some scheme adjustments...which hopefully they make this week.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2018, 11:22 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Quote from Austin regarding his defense's poor performance, per cincyjungle:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

Holy shit, fire this clown immediately. He doesn't understand that 4 of the 5 wins are because of the offense winning in spite of his dumbass.

From my experience, someone like Austin who tries to say, "We're all one team, it's not defense vs offense!" usually means that person's side is more often the culprit to the struggling and forcing the other side to pick up the slack.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2018, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: From my experience, someone like Austin who tries to say, "We're all one team, it's not defense vs offense!" usually means that person's side is more often the culprit to the struggling and forcing the other side to pick up the slack.

Austin's defense weren't ranked very good in Detroit outside his 1st year. He's performing about how I'd expect him to.

I think Austin may be one of those guys that is more suited for a Head Coach role than a coordinator. I know people may think that's crazy on the surface, but the skillsets are different. Head Coach is overall big picture and motivating the team. Coordinator is X's and O's and situational play calling.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2018, 01:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Austin's defense weren't ranked very good in Detroit outside his 1st year. He's performing about how I'd expect him to.

I think Austin may be one of those guys that is more suited for a Head Coach role than a coordinator. I know people may think that's crazy on the surface, but the skillsets are different. Head Coach is overall big picture and motivating the team. Coordinator is X's and O's and situational play calling.

Perhaps I missed it, but welcome back Pistons!

I agree that HC and coordinator skill sets are different.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2018, 01:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I totally agree with you. I think the talent is there on defense this year in general but the tackling fundamentals have been poor at times. They seem to be trying to tackle high around the shoulders and that's cause a lot of missed tackles. I assume it is in response to not wanting to get personal fouls, but that's speculation.

The pass coverage from the LB's has been bad as you alluded to.

I think also that our defensive scheme doesn't really seem to align well to the shift in offense/rule changes that the NFL has moved to. Really no teams do, but it looks worse here partly because of circumstances...we have 5 wins, but really all of our games have been close to where we could win or lose except the Chiefs game and we had early leads in several prompting the other teams to pass more. So the stats are skewed some.

That said, we do need some scheme adjustments...which hopefully they make this week.

All true Pistons, we are going to need to see something different from Austin and Haslett, this last quote sure
doesn't give me confidence. He needs to be accountable for the lack of fundamentals in tackling and the lack of
coverage.

Showing accountability is what gives players a reason to respect a coach. One of the biggest reasons i think that
PA was a failure here was his inability to accept that his players were just not getting it done.

This needs to change. Luckily this bye came at the right time, i just hope that the players can adjust in time for
the Saints. Another great Offense coming to town.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2018, 01:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Perhaps I missed it, but welcome back Pistons!

I agree that HC and coordinator skill sets are different.

Thanks! 

Perhaps someone has missed tackle statistics, but the ones I see missing the most tackles are Burfict and Williams who are also 2 of our most penalized defenders. I also see these guys go high a lot.

I want to say that Iloka is part of the reason the defense declined, but Fej and Bates both grade out VERY well. Both grade out among the top safeties.

Fej probably needs more playing time...even if it's in a LB role.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2018, 01:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Thanks! 

Perhaps someone has missed tackle statistics, but the ones I see missing the most tackles are Burfict and Williams who are also 2 of our most penalized defenders. I also see these guys go high a lot.

I want to say that Iloka is part of the reason the defense declined, but Fej and Bates both grade out VERY well. Both grade out among the top safeties.

Fej probably needs more playing time...even if it's in a LB role.

Bates is already a stud, i agree that Fej should get more snaps. I think he has much more upside than Shawn
and could be a bigger playmaker. I think we ought to use Shawn more as a Nickle LB on passing downs.

[sandwedge]

(11-01-2018, 01:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Thanks! 

Perhaps someone has missed tackle statistics, but the ones I see missing the most tackles are Burfict and Williams who are also 2 of our most penalized defenders. I also see these guys go high a lot.

I want to say that Iloka is part of the reason the defense declined, but Fej and Bates both grade out VERY well. Both grade out among the top safeties.

Fej probably needs more playing time...even if it's in a LB role.

I'd like to see more Fej at Lber, than seeing them trot out Nickerson.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2018, 02:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I'd like to see more Fej at Lber, than seeing them trot out Nickerson.

Don't want to see Nickerson out there at all, this guy is just bad at everything.

[Sled21]

(11-01-2018, 02:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bates is already a stud, i agree that Fej should get more snaps. I think he has much more upside than Shawn
and could be a bigger playmaker. I think we ought to use Shawn more as a Nickle LB on passing downs.

It's amazing how the question mark on Bates in the draft was if he was tough enough to tackle in the NFL, and he has basically been our best tackler....

[Yojimbo]

Stupid last place defense holding back our 23rd ranked offense, smh.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2018, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't want to see Nickerson out there at all, this guy is just bad at everything.

He's really the only guy on defense that I look at and say...that guy is bad and needs replaced.

I know that Kirkpatrick and Billings draw ire...but when you look at their grades, they're not that bad.

[THE PISTONS]

Which interestingly leads me to the scheme being the issues. We've had years where we had bad starters and yielded better results.

We have only 1 bad starter on defense and we have decent depth everywhere but LB. The results should be better...especially on 3rd down.

[Jaylan15]

(11-01-2018, 11:22 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Quote from Austin regarding his defense's poor performance, per cincyjungle:
"Count the Ws and the Ls. That's the only stat at the end of the year that counts. That's all I care about. And getting turnovers."

Holy shit, fire this clown immediately. He doesn't understand that 4 of the 5 wins are because of the offense winning in spite of his dumbass.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2018, 03:21 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It's amazing how the question mark on Bates in the draft was if he was tough enough to tackle in the NFL, and he has basically been our best tackler....

Yeah, i know, blows my mind. Thought this would be the only reason he would fall to the 3rd, thought we might
of reached on him a bit in the 2nd cause of his tackling at Wake. Definately wasn't a reach, dude like you said is a
great tackler to go along with his amazing ballhawking abilities.

Think he will be better than Reggie for us.

BTW, saw Reggie make some boneheaded plays last night and got benched for a series.

(11-01-2018, 08:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's really the only guy on defense that I look at and say...that guy is bad and needs replaced.

I know that Kirkpatrick and Billings draw ire...but when you look at their grades, they're not that bad.

Same here, we have lots of talented players which gives me hope. The coaching really is what worries me.

Will the coaches be able to coach these guys up to their respective talent?

Austin's quote sure makes me wonder and i have always thought Haslett was a bad LB coach here.

(11-01-2018, 08:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which interestingly leads me to the scheme being the issues. We've had years where we had bad starters and yielded better results.

We have only 1 bad starter on defense and we have decent depth everywhere but LB. The results should be better...especially on 3rd down.

For sure. The coaching is the obvious problem IMO.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2018, 01:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, i know, blows my mind. Thought this would be the only reason he would fall to the 3rd, thought we might
of reached on him a bit in the 2nd cause of his tackling at Wake. Definately wasn't a reach, dude like you said is a
great tackler to go along with his amazing ballhawking abilities.

Think he will be better than Reggie for us.

BTW, saw Reggie make some boneheaded plays last night and got benched for a series.


Same here, we have lots of talented players which gives me hope. The coaching really is what worries me.

Will the coaches be able to coach these guys up to their respective talent?

Austin's quote sure makes me wonder and i have always thought Haslett was a bad LB coach here.


For sure. The coaching is the obvious problem IMO.

When I get some time, I want to post some PFF numbers for our defense. It's kind of a 2+2=3 type scenario. We have 2 safeties ranked Top 5 in the league for instance.

We have 3 defensive lineman that grade really highly.