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**MentalRage** · 12-28-2018, 06:32 PM

I'm ready to move on from Dalton, but not for Jeff Driskel. Come on guys.

Also this draft really isn't that good for QBs. 2020 should be better. That will be the optimum time to move on imo.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 06:34 PM

(12-20-2018, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I did not suggest any type of "rating boost ". All i did was say all qbs have to be rabked on an equal basis. Every league every where understands this. All league leaders and statistacal rankings are based on regular season because that is the only way to treat them all equal.

Have no idea what you mean by excluding half of starting qbs.

The fact of the matter, is there are many qb's who probably played against more playoff defenses during the season, whose own team never made the playoffs, than Dalton did the years he played in the playoffs.

The hard luck argument to say its unfair to combine season and playoff stats together, because Dalton faced a playoff defense, doesn't hold any weight.

On top of that, playoff games should count more than regular season games, therefor merely adding season and playoff games together is unfair. The playoff games should count as a minimum of 2 regular season games.

This would drop Daltons ratings down even more and boost someone like Bradys rating because he does well in the playoffs.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 06:48 PM

(12-20-2018, 12:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....aaaaannnnnnnddddddd the PFF site had him ranked in the top 10 on the deep ball in the link I provided to you, contrary to what you said. The football outsiders link you used has some rather subjective analysis (hint...could be construed as bias), as was pointed out to you by fred.

Brickwallblitz is subjective my ass, that's purely your opinion, so prove that it is. The PFF stats on Dalton I don't have access to , like I've stated , so I cant confirm anything. I don't have a PFF subscription.

I'd have to see all the years PFF ranked him and even then PFF is not full proof definitive. It probably doesn't go into the depth of analysis that Brickwallblitz does.

Hooked on phonics coming from an illiterate hillbilly who provides zero facts to support his arguments . Your writing style looks like something a 10 year would scribble at the last minute before handing it in.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:00 PM

(12-28-2018, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. I don't know why a perfect pass from the 10 yard line should be worth less than a perfect pass from the 49 yard line. Why should field position determine how well a QB throws the ball?

2. None of the formulas you propose take into account field position so that means they are all just as flawed.

I don't see your point.

Every throw should measured by distance and points produced. Every 30 yard throw all the way to 100 yard throws are measured and the points produced should be calculated. We're talking deep throws over 30 yards.

In my example, two throws of the same distance, from almost the same field position, 51 yard line and 50 yard line, produce a 3% points difference and 30% rating difference.

Now not every throw would produce that 10 fold difference , but the fact is that the throws that produce td's get a huge rating boost compared to throws that almost produce a td , around 6.7 points.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:09 PM

(12-20-2018, 01:00 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Why are you trying to refute his point using QB rating considering the following:

You don't like the QB rating when it's used to prop up Dalton, but have no problem using it to tear him down. There's a word for someone like you, but I'm not going to say it right now.

I have no problem when someone uses a qb rating to prop up Dalton , as long as it's not cherry picked.

To pick qb ratings, like only qb rating for active qb's, which excludes qb's not in the league right now who were in the league most of Daltons years, and throws over 750 yards, which excludes good young qb's like Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Winston, Watson and Mariota, is what I'm talking about.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:18 PM

(12-20-2018, 12:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Umm, there is no 0.2 or 3%difference in points produced. One produces 6 points the other produces 0 points. That's a HUGE difference.

Also, one 50 yard pass for a TD gets the exact same QB rating as a 50 yard pass to the one followed by a 1 yard pass for a TD.

A 50 yard throw to the 1 yard line produces a TD 92% of the time and a FG the other 8%, that's 6.7 points from that throw.

Produces means from the one yard line how many points does a team score on average.

The 50 yard throw for a td produces 7 points. The two throws differ by 30 rating points and produce 3% difference in points. That's a 30%/ 3% or a 10 fold difference between ratings and points produced.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:27 PM

(12-21-2018, 12:02 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you think i'm going to go back and forth with you on the absolutely ridiculous and erroneous things you say--then walk back claiming you didn't say it--you're crazy, junior.

Nice try you loon. You dispute my claims saying Im full of it, then you back them up at the same time showing Dalton ranked 23 out of 35, which is below average.

If anyone was talking out of their ass its you. I have consistently stated Daltons ratings rank him below average. Not once have I stated anything else than that!

Didn't say what you old loon! You're probably some senile old geezer sitting in a rocking chair hurling insults. I haven't walked back anything I've stated!

***Synric*** · 12-28-2018, 07:34 PM

(12-28-2018, 06:48 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Brickwallblitz is subjective my ass, that's purely your opinion, so prove that it is. The PFF stats on Dalton I don't have access to , like I've stated , so I cant confirm anything. I don't have a PFF subscription.

I'd have to see all the years PFF ranked him and even then PFF is not full proof definitive. It probably doesn't go into the depth of analysis that Brickwallblitz does.

Hooked on phonics coming from an illiterate hillbilly who provides zero facts to support his arguments . Your writing style looks like something a 10 year would scribble at the last minute before handing it in.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:36 PM

(12-28-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How is getting rid of Dalton going to get us all these other players.

Many first round qb's are good as well. What does that prove.

16 million will get a good right tackle for around 8 million , a right guard for 4 million and a linebacker for 4 million. Those would be definite upgrades to what we have right now.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:46 PM

(12-18-2018, 01:57 PM)Fullrock Wrote: You people who continue to support Dalton (a QB that ranks somewhere between 15-20 in the league) crack me up when you have made the decision how terrible Driskel is after 3 starts. If you know ANYTHING about football, you know it takes time for QB's to develop. Let me remind you that your beloved "Average Andy" threw for less than 200 yards in 10 out of 17 games in his rookie year.

Jared Goff had a stellar 71.2 passer rating and threw 5 TD's and 7 picks in his first 7 starts for the Rams. Good thing they didn't write him off as "terrible" huh? Hall of Famer Peyton Manning threw 28 picks his first season. The list can go on and on. It takes time to develop a QB people. This is the kid's first regular season action. You cannot replicate the speed of the game in practice or in the preseason when you are playing against people who don't make rosters.

Driskel has good size, runs a 4.5 40, has good arm strength, and is by all accounts an intelligent kid. Has he missed some throws? Of course. Has he made some impressive throws into tight windows? Yes. He was working with a severely short-handed deck Sunday after Boyd went out. John Ross was the No. 1 receiver at that point. That would have been a tough thing for the 8 year veteran Dalton, let alone a kid making his 3rd start.

As is so predictable, this coaching staff has tried to fit a QB who brings a different skill set to the equation into an offense designed for a different type of player at the position (Dalton). I have no idea what Driskel can develop into, and neither does anyone else at this point. Maybe he IS terrible. Maybe he isn't. What I do know is the tools are there. Again, we have seen Dalton for 8 years and know EXACTLY what he is. Good enough to win some games and bad enough to lose some games. At the end of the day you get average. Average hasn't been good enough to win a playoff game for 8 years. At what point do you move on?

This team has so many holes. They will be the worst team in the division next year. May as well see if you can develop the tools of Driskel into something in an offense designed to take advantage of his tools. What's the difference between 4 and 6 wins? As currently constructed, I can't see this team winning more than 6 games next year with Dalton under center.

These delusional Dalton defenders will cherry pick any stats and come up with the craziest arguments to support their idiotic claims that Dalton is close to elite level. They'll even blatantly lie about anything you say to try to discredit you. These trolls will do anything to convince you Dalton is elite.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 07:50 PM

(12-19-2018, 12:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why does everything have to be about Andy Dalton with some of you? All I did was point out some prime time games where AJ didn’t “disappear.” I didn’t diminish, or even mention Andy in my post.

And 1 of the games I mentioned McCarron was the QB.

These sensitive sallies are very touchy when hard facts and truth are given to show Dalton isn't as good as they claim he is.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 08:00 PM

(12-18-2018, 01:57 PM)Fullrock Wrote: You people who continue to support Dalton (a QB that ranks somewhere between 15-20 in the league) crack me up when you have made the decision how terrible Driskel is after 3 starts. If you know ANYTHING about football, you know it takes time for QB's to develop. Let me remind you that your beloved "Average Andy" threw for less than 200 yards in 10 out of 17 games in his rookie year.

Jared Goff had a stellar 71.2 passer rating and threw 5 TD's and 7 picks in his first 7 starts for the Rams. Good thing they didn't write him off as "terrible" huh? Hall of Famer Peyton Manning threw 28 picks his first season. The list can go on and on. It takes time to develop a QB people. This is the kid's first regular season action. You cannot replicate the speed of the game in practice or in the preseason when you are playing against people who don't make rosters.

Driskel has good size, runs a 4.5 40, has good arm strength, and is by all accounts an intelligent kid. Has he missed some throws? Of course. Has he made some impressive throws into tight windows? Yes. He was working with a severely short-handed deck Sunday after Boyd went out. John Ross was the No. 1 receiver at that point. That would have been a tough thing for the 8 year veteran Dalton, let alone a kid making his 3rd start.

As is so predictable, this coaching staff has tried to fit a QB who brings a different skill set to the equation into an offense designed for a different type of player at the position (Dalton). I have no idea what Driskel can develop into, and neither does anyone else at this point. Maybe he IS terrible. Maybe he isn't. What I do know is the tools are there. Again, we have seen Dalton for 8 years and know EXACTLY what he is. Good enough to win some games and bad enough to lose some games. At the end of the day you get average. Average hasn't been good enough to win a playoff game for 8 years. At what point do you move on?

This team has so many holes. They will be the worst team in the division next year. May as well see if you can develop the tools of Driskel into something in an offense designed to take advantage of his tools. What's the difference between 4 and 6 wins? As currently constructed, I can't see this team winning more than 6 games next year with Dalton under center.

In their strange world 8 years isn't enough time to evaluate Dalton, even when he produces below average numbers, yet 3 games is more than enough to evaluate Driskel, even when the offensive line is horrible and he's missing Green, Boyd, Eifert and Kroft.

**treee** · 12-28-2018, 08:05 PM

(12-28-2018, 08:00 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: In their strange world 8 years isn't enough time to evaluate Dalton, even when he produces below average numbers, yet 3 games is more than enough to evaluate Driskel, even when the offensive line is horrible and he's missing Green, Boyd, Eifert and Kroft.

I saw everything that I needed to see from Dalton in 2015: Build a competent offense around him, and he will make it work. Simple as that. That is good enough for me from a quarterback. Now if only we could find someone to build an offense.

**wolverine515151** · 12-28-2018, 08:10 PM

(12-28-2018, 08:05 PM)treee Wrote: I saw everything that I needed to see from Dalton in 2015: Build a competent offense around him, and he will make it work. Simple as that. That is good enough for me from a quarterback. Now if only we could find someone to build an offense.

Well that's the correct evaluation, while these Dalton defenders haven't seen enough, they need more time to properly evaluate him. They probably believe the earth is flat and the satellite images showing the earth to be round are fake. Truth is like a disease to these delusional defenders and should be avoided like the plague.

***rfaulk34*** · 12-29-2018, 03:17 PM

(12-28-2018, 07:27 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Nice try you loon. You dispute my claims saying Im full of it, then you back them up at the same time showing Dalton ranked 23 out of 35, which is below average.

If anyone was talking out of their ass its you. I have consistently stated Daltons ratings rank him below average. Not once have I stated anything else than that!

Didn't say what you old loon! You're probably some senile old geezer sitting in a rocking chair hurling insults. I haven't walked back anything I've stated!

"Suspended"

lololol