I think I know what might be really hindering this franchise. ( I might be wrong)

[Catmandude123]

(12-31-2018, 02:20 AM)Beaker Wrote: Tell us how this doesn't contribute to an air of toxicity surrounding the franchise.

Did I say something that was a lie. Did I say something that every football fan in the country doesn't already knows. I have no way of venting my frustration other than posting my feelings. I personally can do nothing else. If the culture around the team is going to change it will have to change from the top down. While you would have us believe we are the problem we the fans have absolutely no control of any success or failure of Mike Browns decision making. 

[Hoofhearted]

(12-31-2018, 02:26 AM)Beaker Wrote: I disagree. It contributes to the overall negative air surrounding the team. 


So if it doesnt help or affect any of those things, what's the point in b!tching?

So you're looking at the correlation and not the causation? Maybe that's why?

[BengalsRocker]

(12-31-2018, 02:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: I would totally agree with you that some fans are negative. Although I dont believe its the majority. I believe most fans are disgusted and tired of the status quo, but not all choose to be consistently, vocally negative.

Why would that be? Its due to a collection of things that are well documented. MB. ML, the lack of winning, draft busts, lack of FAs, etc. It all contributes to the displeasure.

But my point wasnt about the causes of the toxicity. It was that we are contributing to it. Its amazing how defensive people have become trying to justify their negativity instead of admitting it does zero good and contributes to the overall toxicity currently surrounding the franchise. 

I would love to hear your thoughts on why it is so hard for people to admit that incessant negativity does nothing to help this franchise. 

So if by admission it's the minority and not majority that's negative then how does it affect the toxicity of the team?

That right there blows a hole in your theory.

It would seem a larger scale display of negativity would have detrimental contribution to players mentality.

You're losing ground my friend.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-31-2018, 02:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: I would totally agree with you that some fans are negative. Although I dont believe its the majority. I believe most fans are disgusted and tired of the status quo, but not all choose to be consistently, vocally negative.

Why would that be? Its due to a collection of things that are well documented. MB. ML, the lack of winning, draft busts, lack of FAs, etc. It all contributes to the displeasure.

But my point wasnt about the causes of the toxicity. It was that we are contributing to it. Its amazing how defensive people have become trying to justify their negativity instead of admitting it does zero good and contributes to the overall toxicity currently surrounding the franchise. 

I would love to hear your thoughts on why it is so hard for people to admit that incessant negativity does nothing to help this franchise. 

(12-31-2018, 09:39 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: So if by admission it's the minority and not majority that's negative then how does it affect the toxicity of the team?

That right there blows a hole in your theory.

It would seem a larger scale display of negativity would have detrimental contribution to players mentality.

You're losing ground my friend.

This is where he went wong (lol) IMO. You want to call fans out for the negativity, but disspell the causation of it. Generally speaking, people don't just wake up butt hurt (maybe Ben R does) wanting to flame someone. It all stems from something that happened. And if it doesn't help or hurt this franchise, than fix the actual problem vs pointing at something intangible.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Everyone, everywhere knows that the failures of this franchise is a direct result of the piss poor management of the team. It’s a shame because it’s right there in our face.

It’s sad because Mike is so set in his ways that he won’t bow to any pressure from outside influences. I almost think the man doesn’t give a shit if the stadium is empty. He’s the son of
Paul so he automatically knows better then us and we can’t tell him anything. That’s how it’s going to be until he’s six feet under.

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[McC]

(12-31-2018, 01:57 AM)Beaker Wrote: Its nice that your life is going so well. But the topic was the air of toxicity. My way is the only way to reduce fans contribution to the negative air around the team. If you complain and whine you add to it, you do not reduce it. So its this simple, if you want to reduce the toxicity, reduce your complaining, if you don't care about it or want to maintain it, then keep up with the whining.

This is just horse shit logic, plain and simple.  What it really is is you thinking you have the right to tell people how to act.  Let's just call a spade a spade.

[*Nately120*]

(12-31-2018, 02:01 AM)Beaker Wrote: And that's exactly a way they can affect change without constant negative vocal input.

So shut up or give up?  If/when Marvin gets another year and/or Hue gets decade at HC I should either embrace it, keep my mouth shut about it, or what...just go be a Chicago Bears fan?  I understand that the constant complaining is pointless and irksome, but if empty stadiums made for positive changes and winning teams the Raiders and the Bengals would be having winning seasons hand over fist.

And as I pointed out in another thread, we've done pretty well as a fanbase to inject pointless optimism up our bums. We were pumped going into this year because our GM did something about the o-line eventually, and we've even managed to get our hopes up for players who should be in the XFL like Driskel and Auden Tate. We've made a goodly amount of chicken salad from chickencrapola this year, but lord help us if that doesn't make for a happy picnic.

[Bronxbengal]

What’s hindering this franchise? Easy question..... MIKE “FREAKING” BROWN.....Every time I hear MIKE BROWN speak he reminds of Chris Farley in “Tommy Boy”. Mike Brown is incompetent


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[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 02:29 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We're tired of it and want change. Should we come on here and post smileys and flowers blossoming and talk about how great this endless misery is ?

No. But if you want change and know being negative and complaining about it won't result in change and will add to the negativity around the team at the moment, what's the point in doing so?

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 02:34 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Negativity is a given when teams lose. That's reality. Negativity generally gives a better chance for change than a lack of negativity. That's reality. 

All of your arguments only lead me to one conclusion. You don't want to have to read negative posts.

Windmills.

And with that, i'm done with the merry go round. I have appreciated the discussion though.

Negativity is never a given, its always a choice.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-31-2018, 09:50 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is where he went wong (lol) IMO. You want to call fans out for the negativity, but disspell the causation of it. Generally speaking, people don't just wake up butt hurt (maybe Ben R does) wanting to flame someone. It all stems from something that happened. And if it doesn't help or hurt this franchise, than fix the actual problem vs pointing at something intangible.

Are we sucked into a negative atmosphere?

The answer is yes.

Do we all react to it in the same manner?

The answer is no.

That is not the same as fans negativity causing players to not want to play for the team.

Bad management and coaching lead to empty stadiums and backlash.

They are the result.

You correct those two bad things and it turns the fans' perception around.

It just takes a lot longer when the team has historically been mismanaged.

This guy just doesn't want to hear/read/see negativity even if justified

Kind of reminds me of Denny.  

Anyone here know what I'm talking about??

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 08:54 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: While you would have us believe we are the problem 

Nope. Wrong again. Just continue adding to the toxicity.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 09:39 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: So if by admission it's the minority and not majority that's negative then how does it affect the toxicity of the team?

That right there blows a hole in your theory.

It would seem a larger scale display of negativity would have detrimental contribution to players mentality.

You're losing ground my friend.

Actually, no. The OP was that there is a negative toxicity surrounding the team. I contended that fan negativity contributes to that. It wouldnt matter if that were 75% of the fans, or .01% of the fans. Any amount of fan negativity would still be contributing to the overall toxicity.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-31-2018, 12:19 PM)Beaker Wrote: Actually, no. The OP was that there is a negative toxicity surrounding the team. I contended that fan negativity contributes to that. It wouldnt matter if that were 75% of the fans, or .01% of the fans. Any amount of fan negativity would still be contributing to the overall toxicity.

Nice try.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 09:50 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is where he went wong (lol) IMO. You want to call fans out for the negativity, but disspell the causation of it. 

This is where you went wrong. We know the reasons why fans are displeased (causation). But fans are also the ones who have control over how they respond to that displeasure. So the causation is not the issue since we already know the why. Once that is in place, the only thing that matters is how you respond since that is the only thing you can control. If you run somebody off the road in a fit of road rage, we know why you where pissed. What mattered (and what you could have controlled) was your negative response to the situation. 

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 10:19 AM)McC Wrote: This is just horse shit logic, plain and simple.  What it really is is you thinking you have the right to tell people how to act.  Let's just call a spade a spade.

I simply said if you dont want to contribute to the negativity surrounding the team, dont respond to your displeasure with the Bengals by whining. You are free to choose how you want to act. What's horse shit logic is the attempt to justify that a negative reaction is not contributing to the overall negativity.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 10:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: So shut up or give up? 

No. Shut up if you dont want to contribute to the negativity. That's all.

[McC]

(12-31-2018, 12:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: I simply said if you dont want to contribute to the negativity surrounding the team, dont respond to your displeasure with the Bengals by whining. You are free to choose how you want to act. What's horse shit logic is the attempt to justify that a negative reaction is not contributing to the overall negativity.

Quit acting like it's a concrete thing that can somehow magically envelop PBs and make the bad things worse.  On this planet, that just makes no sense.

[Catmandude123]

(12-31-2018, 12:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: I simply said if you dont want to contribute to the negativity surrounding the team, dont respond to your displeasure with the Bengals by whining. You are free to choose how you want to act. What's horse shit logic is the attempt to justify that a negative reaction is not contributing to the overall negativity.

I believe you and others like you feed off our frustration and try to set yourself on a pedestal looking down with a holier than thou attitude. Do you and others know that you only react to our negativity? So if others didn't comment you wouldn't have a thing to whine about. You must be an employee of the Bengals PR dept. Why else would you go on and on and on about others frustrations. You harp about whining but you are the biggest whiner on this post.

[*Nately120*]

(12-31-2018, 12:32 PM)Beaker Wrote: No. Shut up if you dont want to contribute to the negativity. That's all.

I don't mind contributing to negativity, though.