QB Index by Gregg Rosenthal

[Johnny Cupcakes]

If he's going to jack Carson Palmer up for his great performance so far this season (and it has been rather great....2005ish, maybe), then he should be jacking Andy up in the same manner. He's showing his bias.

I certainly don't think Andy is an elite QB, but he has definitely had an elite start to this season, and performance seems to be what he bases his rankings off of, except for the curious case of Andy Dalton.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Andy Dalton, when he was in 8th grade, ran up to Rosenthal and kicked him in the shins. Then 8 years later, Andy Dalton saw Rosenthal walking his dog and Andy ran up and kicked his dog and yelled "WHATCHA GONNA DO...ROSIEEEE?"

And ever since, Rosenthal has been like, "This is what I'm gonna do punk!" and keeps him low in his rankings.

[Tigerlou]

Wow. I have wondered what Andy did to Rosenthal. That is so bad, but I think this year Andy may plan so well that a dish of crow will be presented to Rosenthal!

[McC]

(09-10-2015, 06:07 PM)J24 Wrote: He struggled at the end of last season  but I agree with you on him not being done.

Isn't he struggling so far this season too?  Personally, I can't wait until he retires because i figure the number of his commercials airing would have to go down by half.

[Bengals_Legendary]

If I were to rank the QB's according to this system, mine would go something like this:

*I've added many players who were not ranked at all*

I am a sports -fanatic- and enjoy any and all talk about football in general. Honest replies are welcome.

I spent a lot of time making this so please give me your honest feedback.

Thank you!

TOP SHELF
1. Aaron Rodgers - Without question the best QB in the league. An absolute stud.
2. Tom Brady - Without question the second best QB in the league and future HOF candidate.
3. Ben Roethlisberger - An underrated future Hall of Fame QB with questionable personal history.
4. Andrew Luck - A rising superstar who is off to a bad start. He will get it together soon enough.
5. Matt Ryan - Seemingly always on the cusp of stardom. I think Julio Jones will take him there.
6. Philip Rivers - Has always been an upper echelon QB lacking in overall success. Still one of the best,
7. Russell Wilson - Has shown superior ability but lacks that big play potential that everyone craves.
8. Tony Romo - Has been an underrated force for a while. People love to hate, be he is as solid as it gets.
9. Drew Brees - Used to be a top 5 QB in the league, but age has taken its toll. Just barely elite at this point.
10. Peyton Manning - Arm strength appears to be gone. Still has the smarts to take on the best, but fading quickly.

The Next Level
11. Cam Newton - He's right on the cusp, but he needs more weapons to make the leap.
12. Teddy Bridgewater - He is a rising superstar who needs better receivers. Will be one of the best.
13. Matthew Stafford - A gunslinger who is turnover prone, but an absolute beast when at his best.
14. Ryan Tannehill - An up-and-coming youngster who has a chance to be great.
15. Eli Manning - An inconsistent Champion who is hard to rank.
16. Carson Palmer - A former pro bowl caliber player who can still get it done.
17. Joe Flacco - A Champion who plays well in clutch time but relies on deep throw too often.
18. Andy Dalton - A high potential, well-rounded QB who needs to reduce turnovers to be better.
19. Blake Bortles - A future superstar who will rise when equipped with better receivers.
*Jimmy Garoppolo - Has played just a few snaps but looks like he could be something special.

Stuck in the Middle
20. Alex Smith - An accurate but low-mistake signal caller. We know what he is.
21. Jay Cutler - Capable of great plays and capable of terrible plays. He is way too inconsistent.
22. Colin Kaepernick - Is only as good as his team. An athletic but inconsistent threat.
23. Kirk Cousins - Capable of having great games, but equally as incapable of having poor games.
24. Ryan Fitzpatrick - Is mostly considered a "backup QB" but plays considerable very well on poor teams.
* Mark Sanchez - A truly average QB. Once considered a starter, he has fallen into mediocrity.
* Matt Cassel - Has been a start off and on for a few years now. He's good...but not good enough.
* Mike Glennon - I truly feel he did not get a real chance. Overall numbers are good. Needs another opportunity.
* EJ Manuel - I liked him in the draft. He has had some great moments, but just not enough of them.


The Rookies
25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

The Question Marks
27. Derek Carr - Has big play ability but needs to capitalize on opportunities. Needs to improve accuracy.
28. Sam Bradford - Highly injury-prone player who was supposed to be a star. Need more time to evaluate.
29. Nick Foles - At times looks like he could be a top-tier QB but has sporadic performances. I am optimistic.
30. Tyrod Taylor - A complete unknown who is finally getting a chance to shine. Further evaluation needed.
31. Robert Griffin III - An unusual case...fantastic rookie campaign followed by injury after injury. needs further evaluation.
* Austin Davis - Had a great run with St. Louis last year, but is now unemployed. I feel like there is more to this story.
* Johnny Manziel - A media favorite, it's hard to gauge his actual ability. This season though, he looks much improved.
* Zach Mettenberger - An interesting QB. Has been TO prone but has also looked very good at times. Needs more time.
* Brock Osweiler - What is this guy? Is he the heir apparent to Manning? It's not clear what his role is but he has potential.
* Tom Savage - Always liked him as a prospect. Was looking good in preseason until he got injured.
* Geno Smith - Everyone loves to hate him. He hasn't looked good, but the Jets aren't the best sample size.
* AJ McCarron - Hasn't played a professional snap but seems smart and reliable. Looked decent in preseason action.

The Backups:
31. Josh McCown - A solid veteran leader but an ultimately poor primary option. A very solid backup.
32. Brian Hoyer - Shows flashes but is inconsistent. Ultimately, just not good enough to start in NFL.
* Chad Henne - A backup for sure, but probably the best backup QB available at any point in time.
* Colt McCoy - Was not a good starter, but has shown above-average ability as a replacement QB.
* Case Keenum - Is an older player which gives him a bad rap. Truthfully though, he is very solid.
* Matt McGloin - Very inconsistent. Has both great games and horrible games which amounts to average backup.
* Blaine Gabbert - A horrible pick by the Jags, but has shown some upside as a backup for the 49ers.
* Matt Hasselbeck - A former star who is just too old to truly compete anymore. Still a fine veteran backup.
* Ryan Mallett - May be slightly better than Brian Hoyer, but for the moment is just as average as it gets.
* Brandon Weeden - Obviously a horrible 1st round pick by Cleveland, but has been serviceable as Dallas' backup.

Just Bad:
* Jimmy Clausen - Hasn't had much opportunity, but has absolutely bombed in the chances he has had.
* Charlie Whitehurst - I'm pretty sure it's his personality and veteran status getting him by. He's horrible.
* Thad Lewis - Has been cut multiple times and been placed on multiple practice squads. Just very bad.
* Stephen Morris - Has oddly alluring potential but has just been downright horrendous in live action.

[type_stripe]

(09-25-2015, 09:44 AM)Bengals_Legendary Wrote: If I were to rank the QB's according to this system, mine would go something like this:

*I've added many players who were not ranked at all*

I am a sports -fanatic- and enjoy any and all talk about football in general. Honest replies are welcome.

I spent a lot of time making this so please give me your honest feedback.

Thank you!

TOP SHELF
1. Aaron Rodgers - Without question the best QB in the league. An absolute stud.
2. Tom Brady - Without question the second best QB in the league and future HOF candidate.
3. Ben Roethlisberger - An underrated future Hall of Fame QB with questionable personal history.
4. Andrew Luck - A rising superstar who is off to a bad start. He will get it together soon enough.
5. Matt Ryan - Seemingly always on the cusp of stardom. I think Julio Jones will take him there.
6. Philip Rivers - Has always been an upper echelon QB lacking in overall success. Still one of the best,
7. Russell Wilson - Has shown superior ability but lacks that big play potential that everyone craves.
8. Tony Romo - Has been an underrated force for a while. People love to hate, be he is as solid as it gets.
9. Drew Brees - Used to be a top 5 QB in the league, but age has taken its toll. Just barely elite at this point.
10. Peyton Manning - Arm strength appears to be gone. Still has the smarts to take on the best, but fading quickly.

The Next Level
11. Cam Newton - He's right on the cusp, but he needs more weapons to make the leap.
12. Teddy Bridgewater - He is a rising superstar who needs better receivers. Will be one of the best.
13. Matthew Stafford - A gunslinger who is turnover prone, but an absolute beast when at his best.
14. Ryan Tannehill - An up-and-coming youngster who has a chance to be great.
15. Eli Manning - An inconsistent Champion who is hard to rank.
16. Carson Palmer - A former pro bowl caliber player who can still get it done.
17. Joe Flacco - A Champion who plays well in clutch time but relies on deep throw too often.
18. Andy Dalton - A high potential, well-rounded QB who needs to reduce turnovers to be better.
19. Blake Bortles - A future superstar who will rise when equipped with better receivers.
*Jimmy Garoppolo - Has played just a few snaps but looks like he could be something special.

Stuck in the Middle
20. Alex Smith - An accurate but low-mistake signal caller. We know what he is.
21. Jay Cutler - Capable of great plays and capable of terrible plays. He is way too inconsistent.
22. Colin Kaepernick - Is only as good as his team. An athletic but inconsistent threat.
23. Kirk Cousins - Capable of having great games, but equally as incapable of having poor games.
24. Ryan Fitzpatrick - Is mostly considered a "backup QB" but plays considerable very well on poor teams.
* Mark Sanchez - A truly average QB. Once considered a starter, he has fallen into mediocrity.
* Matt Cassel - Has been a start off and on for a few years now. He's good...but not good enough.
* Mike Glennon - I truly feel he did not get a real chance. Overall numbers are good. Needs another opportunity.
* EJ Manuel - I liked him in the draft. He has had some great moments, but just not enough of them.


The Rookies
25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

The Question Marks
27. Derek Carr - Has big play ability but needs to capitalize on opportunities. Needs to improve accuracy.
28. Sam Bradford - Highly injury-prone player who was supposed to be a star. Need more time to evaluate.
29. Nick Foles - At times looks like he could be a top-tier QB but has sporadic performances. I am optimistic.
30. Tyrod Taylor - A complete unknown who is finally getting a chance to shine. Further evaluation needed.
31. Robert Griffin III - An unusual case...fantastic rookie campaign followed by injury after injury. needs further evaluation.
* Austin Davis - Had a great run with St. Louis last year, but is now unemployed. I feel like there is more to this story.
* Johnny Manziel - A media favorite, it's hard to gauge his actual ability. This season though, he looks much improved.
* Zach Mettenberger - An interesting QB. Has been TO prone but has also looked very good at times. Needs more time.
* Brock Osweiler - What is this guy? Is he the heir apparent to Manning? It's not clear what his role is but he has potential.
* Tom Savage - Always liked him as a prospect. Was looking good in preseason until he got injured.
* Geno Smith - Everyone loves to hate him. He hasn't looked good, but the Jets aren't the best sample size.
* AJ McCarron - Hasn't played a professional snap but seems smart and reliable. Looked decent in preseason action.

The Backups:
31. Josh McCown - A solid veteran leader but an ultimately poor primary option. A very solid backup.
32. Brian Hoyer - Shows flashes but is inconsistent. Ultimately, just not good enough to start in NFL.
* Chad Henne - A backup for sure, but probably the best backup QB available at any point in time.
* Colt McCoy - Was not a good starter, but has shown above-average ability as a replacement QB.
* Case Keenum - Is an older player which gives him a bad rap. Truthfully though, he is very solid.
* Matt McGloin - Very inconsistent. Has both great games and horrible games which amounts to average backup.
* Blaine Gabbert - A horrible pick by the Jags, but has shown some upside as a backup for the 49ers.
* Matt Hasselbeck - A former star who is just too old to truly compete anymore. Still a fine veteran backup.
* Ryan Mallett - May be slightly better than Brian Hoyer, but for the moment is just as average as it gets.
* Brandon Weeden - Obviously a horrible 1st round pick by Cleveland, but has been serviceable as Dallas' backup.

Just Bad:
* Jimmy Clausen - Hasn't had much opportunity, but has absolutely bombed in the chances he has had.
* Charlie Whitehurst - I'm pretty sure it's his personality and veteran status getting him by. He's horrible.
* Thad Lewis - Has been cut multiple times and been placed on multiple practice squads. Just very bad.
* Stephen Morris - Has oddly alluring potential but has just been downright horrendous in live action.

IMO Luck, Wilson, and Bridgewater are ranked high on this. But I like how you included those other QBs for a bigger picture. Nice job.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-25-2015, 12:13 PM)type_stripe Wrote: IMO Luck, Wilson, and Bridgewater are ranked high on this. But I like how you included those other QBs for a bigger picture. Nice job.

I think Luck will get it together when he starts playing the scrubs in his division.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-24-2015, 03:54 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Ya. That's good and all. Only a monkey could have the perspective that Bradford is worth something... (Chip Kelly)

(09-24-2015, 04:03 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I didn't fact check it, thank you. Either way to say he is the QB one step below Dalton is absurd.

(09-24-2015, 04:32 PM)type_stripe Wrote: werent there also a few posters on these Boards who mentioned Kelly switching Foles with Bradford in order to "win now".  I think it was during one of the comparisons/debates of McCarron and Dalton and how the Bengals need to make a similar move (change the QB) to win now. All based on how the preseason went. LOL.

(09-24-2015, 04:42 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I also remember when people wanted us to trade for Bradford. Bradford has never been good. He misses throws, has terrible pocket presence, and is just overall a below average quarterback. Foles > Bradford and it's not even close. Eagles were dumb in getting rid of Foles and it's going to bite them in the rear. More so than it already has.

(09-24-2015, 09:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Anyone who looks at Bradford's resume notices the seasons where he plays most or all of the games he ends with a very average statline.  He plays out of his mind and gets hurt in 4 games, otherwise.  Also, I'm not sure I'd say Foles is better than Bradford because the Eagles managed to fall fairly flat with Foles, too and the Rams don't look like they are going to get a lot done with him, either.

Foles is better than Bradford when you take their salaries into play, though...THAT makes it obvious.

I love all of you guys capping on Bradford. You must not be watching him play. All 4 of his INT's went in and out of the hands of his WR's, not much more that he can do there. I'd still place my faith in Sam finishing the season as a better QB than Dalton, and yes, I'm one of those that would've loved to have had Bradford here.

As of Week 2, Philly as a team is currently ranked 2nd most in drops so far this season (3x what the Bengals have).

Now what all that said, I do think Dalton is a little low on that list, but they are also factoring in projections for the full season in that, otherwise Luck would have to be last/near last on that list.

[*Nately120*]

(09-25-2015, 01:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I love all of you guys capping on Bradford. You must not be watching him play. All 4 of his INT's went in and out of the hands of his WR's, not much more that he can do there. I'd still place my faith in Sam finishing the season as a better QB than Dalton, and yes, I'm one of those that would've loved to have had Bradford here.

As of Week 2, Philly as a team is currently ranked 2nd most in drops so far this season (3x what the Bengals have).

Now what all that said, I do think Dalton is a little low on that list, but they are also factoring in projections for the full season in that, otherwise Luck would have to be last/near last on that list.

Back up, I watched both Eagles games and I know for a fact one INT he threw in the endzone was literally thrown directly into the grasp of a defender who didn't even know the ball was coming until it was buried in his gut.  Bradford is playing like total tripe.  Tipped INTs stink, but there is a reason crappy QBs throw more tipped INTs than guys like Brady and Rodgers.

The worst thing about Bradford is how shocked, stunned, and deer-in-the-headlights he looks constantly.  That, and the guy only plays good football when he plays 6-10 games and gets IRed.  If you're going to light a candle and pray a QB makes it to the end of the season alive he ought to be better than Bradford, that's all.

I'm biased because he looks like a guy I know that I don't really like, though.

[Hammerstripes]

(09-10-2015, 07:39 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Super Bowl Ring

Bad reason.  It's a team game

[type_stripe]

(09-25-2015, 01:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I love all of you guys capping on Bradford. You must not be watching him play. All 4 of his INT's went in and out of the hands of his WR's, not much more that he can do there. I'd still place my faith in Sam finishing the season as a better QB than Dalton, and yes, I'm one of those that would've loved to have had Bradford here.

As of Week 2, Philly as a team is currently ranked 2nd most in drops so far this season (3x what the Bengals have).

Now what all that said, I do think Dalton is a little low on that list, but they are also factoring in projections for the full season in that, otherwise Luck would have to be last/near last on that list.

I was a big fan of OU and Bradford (as well as Gresh, AP, Murray,)when he (they) came into the NFL. I've watched enough of Bradford over the years to know he COULD be that good. Especially with the the talent around him (feel bad he has to be behind that o-line though) But when you have a history of injuries plus that shaky of an o-line you're not gonna be mentally there.

The point I was making is how people mentioned a change at QB to win now but that doesn't always work out as planned even with a former 1st rounder. (Especially since people were calling for McCarron the 5th rounder to start after the preseason game vs. the Bears)

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-25-2015, 01:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I love all of you guys capping on Bradford. You must not be watching him play. All 4 of his INT's went in and out of the hands of his WR's, not much more that he can do there. I'd still place my faith in Sam finishing the season as a better QB than Dalton, and yes, I'm one of those that would've loved to have had Bradford here.

Well I guess by my previous comment, you're a monkey then :)

Maybe if he threw a nicer ball his receivers would catch it. (I kid)

At least most of the time when Dalton throws INTs he comes back to throw a few TDs as well, haven't seen Bradford do that yet with his 'high powered chip Kelly offense'.

Bradford is a sham, and the last lucky 1st overall pick to make bank. I don't know what you see in him, unless you are some reminiscent Oklahoma fan.

[*Nately120*]

Bradford doesn't look so hot BUT the Rams never look all that good and Chip Kelly's personnel decisions seem to have really limited that team so far.

[type_stripe]

(09-25-2015, 03:17 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Well I guess by my previous comment, you're a monkey then :)

Maybe if he threw a nicer ball his receivers would catch it. (I kid)

At least most of the time when Dalton throws INTs he comes back to throw a few TDs as well, haven't seen Bradford do that yet with his 'high powered chip Kelly offense'.

Bradford is a sham, and the last lucky 1st overall pick to make bank. I don't know what you see in him, unless you are some reminiscent Oklahoma fan.

...ouch

[Rhinocero23]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000546578/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132

updated.

[*Nately120*]

The fact that he has Dalton below Stafford is nothing short of a laugh.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Is this like a power ranking type of thing? If so, Dalton deserves to be in the top 10. He may eventually come crashing down to earth, but he's played like one of the tops in the game so far this season.

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2015, 08:49 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Is this like a power ranking type of thing?  If so, Dalton deserves to be in the top 10.  He may eventually come crashing down to earth, but he's played like one of the tops in the game so far this season.

It seems like power rankings are way more fluid than these things.  How else can  you put a QB who is going to be out for 4-6 weeks in the top tier while putting a QB who is NOT injured and is paying top-tier football at 15 or so?  It's wacky.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I'm telling you, Dalton kicked Rosenthals dog about 6 years ago.

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2015, 10:14 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I'm telling you, Dalton kicked Rosenthals dog about 6 years ago.

Maybe he just glanced at our W/L record and Dalton's stats in 2014 and concluded Andy is being dragged to the playoffs by the rest of the team?