With Green/Atkins/Dalton's Window Closing......

[Essex Johnson]

(01-20-2019, 10:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Your merry go round is saying that AJ benefits from Dalton just as much as Dalton does from AJ? I say that Dalton has proven that AJ is his bread and butter.

AJ is better at his position , we are talking about over his career probably in top 5 to 7... that is in the elite status.. Dalton is not an elite QB but that should take nothing away from Dalton as a solid QB.. and as i pointed out.. catches and yards.. AJ production is less when Andy has not been at QB

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-21-2019, 12:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't evaluate talent based on what they should do, I evaluate based on what they did do. You can blame others all day long, but then look deep into AJ who loses focus and drops passes, silly penalties and not his fault, but you have to put the work in to stay healthy. He can't stay on the field so no matter your talent, you are useless if not on the field playing the game.

What work would have prevented turf toe?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-21-2019, 12:50 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: All this is really saying is that Dalton is better than his backup. LOL 

Not really, for years you guys have said AJ Green makes Andy Dalton and carries him. Why can't AJ carry Macaroni, Gradkowski, Campbell, Driskell, etc?  Could it be that Andy is maybe a little better than he's given credit for?

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 11:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not really, for years you guys have said AJ Green makes Andy Dalton and carries him. Why can't AJ carry Macaroni, Gradkowski, Campbell, Driskell, etc?  Could it be that Andy is maybe a little better than he's given credit for?

This is one of may reasons I hope to see Dalton return for another season. I want to see what Dalton and Co. can do with coaching from a different perspective ?

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2019, 11:31 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is one of may reasons I hope to see Dalton return for another season. I want to see what Dalton and Co. can do with coaching from a different perspective ?

I think Dalton is pretty good and he's the latest QB to be hamstrung by the Bengals' system.  With that being said, either 2019 proves he's great with a fresh HC, or it's a new system and it's too early to tell.  2019 could go either way and we won't know until it is upon us, but if it doesn't go well we can just brush it off as a new system and working out the kinks and so on.

Call me guarded and optimistic, as ever.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 11:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I think Dalton is pretty good and he's the latest QB to be hamstrung by the Bengals' system.  With that being said, either 2019 proves he's great with a fresh HC, or it's a new system and it's too early to tell.  2019 could go either way and we won't know until it is upon us, but if it doesn't go well we can just brush it off as a new system and working out the kinks and so on.

Call me guarded and optimistic, as ever.

I agree,

I just feel a giant part of this teams problem has been the coaching and I mean every aspect of it ! What players are playing, not playing. Gameplans, schemes, play calling, not using players to their strengths. Not being able to take advantage of the other teams weakness, being to conservative and on and on.

We'll see

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2019, 11:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I think Dalton is pretty good and he's the latest QB to be hamstrung by the Bengals' system.  With that being said, either 2019 proves he's great with a fresh HC, or it's a new system and it's too early to tell.  2019 could go either way and we won't know until it is upon us, but if it doesn't go well we can just brush it off as a new system and working out the kinks and so on.

Call me guarded and optimistic, as ever.

As a vet that is regarded as a hard worker and quick learner, I don't think it will take Andy that long to catch on.  He's a solid QB, not great.  He's also not as bad as some pretend he is because they don't like people with red hair, apparently.  Either way, it definitely is time to get his replacement here.....it just doesn't need to be some turd retread like some folks think it should be.

They're going to need to fix the oline, regardless.  People that get on here and rail over and over about QBs don't really understand the game.  Look at the olines on display on championship Sunday.  That's how you win.  Based on raw talent alone, Mahommes is probably the best of the QBs that played, and NE hit him hard and often in the 1st half.  How did his stats look?  They adjusted at the half and neutralized the NE pass rush for the most part and he went on a tear.  It's not really as hard as some make it out to be.  FIX THE DAMN LINE.

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2019, 11:42 AM)Wyche Wrote: As a vet that is regarded as a hard worker and quick learner, I don't think it will take Andy that long to catch on.  He's a solid QB, not great.  He's also not as bad as some pretend he is because they don't like people with red hair, apparently.  Either way, it definitely is time to get his replacement here.....it just doesn't need to be some turd retread like some folks think it should be.

They're going to need to fix the oline, regardless.  People that get on here and rail over and over about QBs don't really understand the game.  Look at the olines on display on championship Sunday.  That's how you win.  Based on raw talent alone, Mahommes is probably the best of the QBs that played, and NE hit him hard and often in the 1st half.  How did his stats look?  They adjusted at the half and neutralized the NE pass rush for the most part and he went on a tear.  It's not really as hard as some make it out to be.  FIX THE DAMN LINE.

I hear ya, I just realize we are in the throes of a new situation and optimism rules.  We are getting excited about Teryl Austin's ball hawking D or Zampese letting Dalton control more of the offense, so our optimism is more grounded this time.  I'll just say at the moment ZT is a total genius and he's also going to do everything we wanted Marvin to do.

Optimism rules the day, that's for sure.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2019, 11:51 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, I just realize we are in the throes of a new situation and optimism rules.  We are getting excited about Teryl Austin's ball hawking D or Zampese letting Dalton control more of the offense, so our optimism is more grounded this time.  I'll just say at the moment ZT is a total genius and he's also going to do everything we wanted Marvin to do.

Optimism rules the day, that's for sure.

That's for some.....I was never optimistic about Ken Zampese, in fact, I was furious with the lazy hire.  Austin was an unknown, some folks were leery of it, some were excited, some were unsure.....like me.

The reason for optimism here is this is an entire staff overhaul.  It's not just a new HC, the FO is actually moving on from assistants this time around.  Entirely new coordinators, a lot of new position coaches, most of the Merv stench has been febrezed.  Who is left that has been here any significant time, Simmons?  

I also get the need to be cautiously optimistic and temper our expectations.  My outlook is this:  if the FO is as aggressive with the roster as they have been with this coaching change, I think we'll see a rather quick turnaround unless this guy is a complete moron.  We played some decent football with a guy that was close to vest and seemed to tighten the ol sphincter up against tougher competition in pressure situations.  He was rigid with scheme and adjustments. If this guy comes in here and has the team playing loose, can adjust, and will scheme more to player strengths vs shoving square pegs in round holes, we'll already be improved.....roster overhaul or not.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Dalton season 14. “ let’s see what he can do with the new coach xxxxx , this might be the year “

[Luvnit2]

After thinking about this thread my question:

How can a window close with it was never fully open? Don't we have to win something to give any of these guys credit?

I am not saying they are not good players, but come crunch time, have them been dominant players? I say none of them have really.

[J24]

The window isn't closed and we can still win a Superbowl wit them. As long as we improver RT, RG, TE, and LB position.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 11:42 AM)Wyche Wrote: As a vet that is regarded as a hard worker and quick learner, I don't think it will take Andy that long to catch on.  He's a solid QB, not great.  He's also not as bad as some pretend he is because they don't like people with red hair, apparently.  Either way, it definitely is time to get his replacement here.....it just doesn't need to be some turd retread like some folks think it should be.

They're going to need to fix the oline, regardless.  People that get on here and rail over and over about QBs don't really understand the game.  Look at the olines on display on championship Sunday.  That's how you win.  Based on raw talent alone, Mahommes is probably the best of the QBs that played, and NE hit him hard and often in the 1st half.  How did his stats look?  They adjusted at the half and neutralized the NE pass rush for the most part and he went on a tear.  It's not really as hard as some make it out to be.  FIX THE DAMN LINE.

Amen

I'm in no way saying Brady isn't the goat......but the reason the Patriots are going to their 1,000 Super Bowl is because Brady had a super clean pocket on 95% of his drop backs ! It's not because some dude lined up off sides on a play. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 12:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's for some.....I was never optimistic about Ken Zampese, in fact, I was furious with the lazy hire.  Austin was an unknown, some folks were leery of it, some were excited, some were unsure.....like me.

The reason for optimism here is this is an entire staff overhaul.  It's not just a new HC, the FO is actually moving on from assistants this time around.  Entirely new coordinators, a lot of new position coaches, most of the Merv stench has been febrezed.  Who is left that has been here any significant time, Simmons?  

I also get the need to be cautiously optimistic and temper our expectations.  My outlook is this:  if the FO is as aggressive with the roster as they have been with this coaching change, I think we'll see a rather quick turnaround unless this guy is a complete moron.  We played some decent football with a guy that was close to vest and seemed to tighten the ol sphincter up against tougher competition in pressure situations.  He was rigid with scheme and adjustments. If this guy comes in here and has the team playing loose, can adjust, and will scheme more to player strengths vs shoving square pegs in round holes, we'll already be improved.....roster overhaul or not.

Again 1,000% agree

Marvin was completely inflexible in his decisions ! Redmond was playing RG and that's final until he finally took him out at the end of the season.
He refused to try anything except his way ! We're running plays A,B,C, and D and you either get it done or else. Ross IMHO is a perfect example ! Perhaps he'll still be a flop under ZT ? but I have a feeling some eyes are gonna be opened.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2019, 12:55 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Amen

I'm in no way saying Brady isn't the goat......but the reason the Patriots are going to their 1,000 Super Bowl is because Brady had a super clean pocket on 95% of his drop backs ! It's not because some dude lined up off sides on a play. 

Brady is as cool of a customer as they come.  He is mister clutch, that is a large part of his GOAT status.  That being said, Darth Hoodie went 10-6 with Matt friggin Cassell. Darth Hoodie continues to outcoach everyone he goes up against nearly every time, even with a declining Brady and no names all over the roster.  

A lot of people underestimate coaching......he wasn't Parcells' right hand man for nothing.

(01-22-2019, 01:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Again 1,000% agree

Marvin was completely inflexible in his decisions ! Redmond was playing RG and that's final until he finally took him out at the end of the season.
He refused to try anything except his way ! We're running plays A,B,C, and D and you either get it done or else. Ross IMHO is a perfect example ! Perhaps he'll still be a flop under ZT ? but I have a feeling some eyes are gonna be opened.

I think you're right.  Like I said, unless this guy is a complete nimrod (I don't think he is), we'll likely see some improvement by just doing some things a lot differently than the last staff did.  The team is not completely devoid of talent.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2019, 12:55 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Amen

I'm in no way saying Brady isn't the goat......but the reason the Patriots are going to their 1,000 Super Bowl is because Brady had a super clean pocket on 95% of his drop backs ! It's not because some dude lined up off sides on a play. 

Also, Brady was not sacked, and was hit only once the entire game against KC.

[Hammerstripes]

I guess it really depends on the view of the roster and how many holes we have to fill. I don't think this team is very far away from being back to the team that started 8-0 and had the most complete roster in football. Where are holes?

RG, RT
LB

What am I missing? Sure you can make an argument about some of the other spots, but the skill positions are in great shape if healthy (Mixon, Gio, AJ, Boyd, Ross, Eifert, Ozumah, Kroft)

The secondary is very good
The D-line had some health issues, but I think a lot of the issues last year were with Austin and recovering from that mess. Look at the last few games vs. teams that needed to win (Pittsburgh, SD) and the defense played good enough to beat the "elite" teams.

It sure would be nice to sign an impact free agent (Mosley at LB) and draft a some stud O-linemen. This isn't that hard of a fix.

[Catmandude123]

(01-22-2019, 11:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not really, for years you guys have said AJ Green makes Andy Dalton and carries him. Why can't AJ carry Macaroni, Gradkowski, Campbell, Driskell, etc?  Could it be that Andy is maybe a little better than he's given credit for?

Yeah all these guys are worse than Dalton. What's your point? The Bengals have a mediocre QB and horrendous backups?  

[fredtoast]

(01-22-2019, 01:28 PM)Wyche Wrote:  we'll likely see some improvement by just doing some things a lot differently than the last staff did.  

Actually the odds are that zac will not have as good of a record as Marvin.  There are more new coaches that are vlosers than winners.

I know this is a shock to some of you but a coach with a winning record is not "the worst".  A winning record is not the floor where things can't get worse and can only get better.

I agree that we have a lot of talent and should show improvement next year if we fill a couple of holes and stay healthy.  But I know enough about the reality of the NFL to realize that Marvin was not so bad that things can only get better.

[McC]

(01-22-2019, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the odds are that zac will not have as good of a record as Marvin.  There are more new coaches that are vlosers than winners.

I know this is a shock to some of you but a coach with a winning record is not "the worst".  A winning record is not the floor where things can't get worse and can only get better.

I agree that we have a lot of talent and should show improvement next year if we fill a couple of holes and stay healthy.  But I know enough about the reality of the NFL to realize that Marvin was not so bad that things can only get better.

So this is your latest schtick, going around trying to deflate all hope about the new HC because your man love for Marvin is just that strong that you can't let go?  Pitiful.  Just amounts to trolling at this point.  Maybe you could at least stop telling that lie that you thought Marvin needed to go.
 
How's it feel to be the last man alive still pimping Merv?