Scout(s) Business as Usual

[jj22]

And other notes from Tobin at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.bengals.com/news/scouts-business-as-usual

He would only say the head coaching search is “ongoing.”

He reiterated the club’s future commitment to quarterback Andy Dalton, noting that he’s got plenty of years left beyond his deal that ends in 2020.

He says the game is changing and acknowledged the Bengals need to add more speed to their roster as well linemen on both sides of the ball, which he also says is business as usual. He estimates they’ll have 11 draft picks and could see them doubling up at a position like linebacker.

Goes into some tidbits about coaching search. But didn't break any new ground.

I don't necessarily agree with his take on not needing to know who the coaches are to scout prospects. Scheme can come into play, so it's important to know what scheme fits they are looking for.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

[Au165]

You don't need to know scheme to scout but you need to know it a bit when you draft them. I think it's a bit of playing semantics on Duke's part. Once you find big, explosive, athletic guys you can decide which one fits better than others.

[McC]

(01-22-2019, 05:13 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

Awesome read.  Zac, bring all that with you, please.

[BengalsBong]

(01-22-2019, 04:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: And other notes from Tobin at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.bengals.com/news/scouts-business-as-usual

He would only say the head coaching search is “ongoing.”

He reiterated the club’s future commitment to quarterback Andy Dalton, noting that he’s got plenty of years left beyond his deal that ends in 2020.

He says the game is changing and acknowledged the Bengals need to add more speed to their roster as well linemen on both sides of the ball, which he also says is business as usual. He estimates they’ll have 11 draft picks and could see them doubling up at a position like linebacker.

Goes into some tidbits about coaching search. But didn't break any new ground.

I don't necessarily agree with his take on not needing to know who the coaches are to scout prospects. Scheme can come into play, so it's important to know what scheme fits they are looking for.

They are not picking the players just taking a look see at them new coach will be in place before we pick anyone.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-22-2019, 05:24 PM)Au165 Wrote: You don't need to know scheme to scout but you need to know it a bit when you draft them. I think it's a bit of playing semantics on Duke's part. Once you find big, explosive, athletic guys you can decide which one fits better than others.

Yep. At this point, scout everyone you can and note their strengths and weaknesses.
Then, when your coaches start to establish the scheme, move guys up/down your list based on how well they fit.
Or bring in a high quality prospect regardless of scheme and adapt the scheme to fit the prospect.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

I liked Snead admitting they were not scouting OL correctly and adjusted.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 05:13 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

Which has been one of the major failure of the Bengals, refusing to admit mistakes.

Let's hope things are changing.

[Yojimbo]

You mean by watching a guy use a bottle of ketchup, you can tell what kind of player he’ll be? That was not a good way to scout?

[McC]

(01-22-2019, 08:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Which has been one of the major failure of the Bengals, refusing to admit mistakes.

Let's hope things are changing.

I gotta think no one in the building will be using ketchup bottles any more to assess OLinemen.  

[Yojimbo]

(01-22-2019, 09:08 PM)McC Wrote: I gotta think no one in the building will be using ketchup bottles any more to assess OLinemen.  

Beat you to the ketchup joke by 30 minutes.

[McC]

(01-22-2019, 09:12 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Beat you to the ketchup joke by 30 minutes.

I saw that.  Didn't want to sound like sour grapes.

Great minds think alike.

[BengalChris]

(01-22-2019, 04:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: And other notes from Tobin at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.bengals.com/news/scouts-business-as-usual

He would only say the head coaching search is “ongoing.”

He reiterated the club’s future commitment to quarterback Andy Dalton, noting that he’s got plenty of years left beyond his deal that ends in 2020.

He says the game is changing and acknowledged the Bengals need to add more speed to their roster as well linemen on both sides of the ball, which he also says is business as usual. He estimates they’ll have 11 draft picks and could see them doubling up at a position like linebacker.

Goes into some tidbits about coaching search. But didn't break any new ground.

I don't necessarily agree with his take on not needing to know who the coaches are to scout prospects. Scheme can come into play, so it's important to know what scheme fits they are looking for.

I believe this confirms what we were expecting. OL and LBers and some DL.

His mentioning of speed was worth saying as long as also being able to play football comes before speed in the draft equation.

I don't quite understand his statements about Dalton. It doesn't matter how many years Dalton has left in him. What matters is is he going to play well enough to lead the offense into the post season and compete for a SB. If the team isn't thinking with that, the new changes aren't going to lead to a SB trip.

(01-22-2019, 05:13 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

Too bad Mike Brown didn't take signing Whitworth seriously. We could all see that Ogbuehi and Fisher were flops by that point. Two years of disaster was rather plainly obvious.

[lone bengal]

I_C_DeadPeople Wrote:Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

I like Snead admitting to his mistakes but a lot of his team was built through free agency with guys like Whitworth, Suh ,Talib, Woods and trading for guys like Peterson, Cooks, Fowler ect. Some of his trades were risky he traded two 1st round picks two 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks to move up and draft Goff at number one overall. They also traded a 1st round pick for Brandon Cooks who is ok. Plus when Goff's rookie deal is up it will be impossible to keep all these guys together. My point is I'm not sure this is a formula the Bengals can follow or will. I'm all for the Bengals packaging picks to move up in later rounds of the draft and being more aggressive in free agency with quality players who aren't bums. Were heading in the right direction tho with hiring Taylor and making moves like the Glenn trade last season. We need to address the offensive line and linebacker early in the draft and free agency and i think we will be moving in the right direction. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-22-2019, 05:13 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Good article on how the Rams were built and how they changed after some draft busts:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/01/22/rams-saints-les-snead-stan-kroenke-nfc-championship-super-bowl-nfl-playoffs

Snead is a man who embraces his failures head-on. When Robinson flopped, he reevaluated the way he scouts tackles (he won’t divulge how), and that made him an asset when Kroenke replaced Fisher with McVay but kept Snead in the front office. Everyone agreed they needed an established left tackle to support Goff, who was entering his second season in 2017. Snead targeted free agent Andrew Whitworth, who had been with the Bengals for 11 seasons and was being seriously courted by three teams that March.

I am pulling for the Rams and think McVeigh has done a tremendous job as HC that calls the plays. 

That being said, the Rams put ALL their chips on the table for THIS YEAR.  They signed a talented, yet very troubled Marcus Peters.  It panned out.  He could have just as easily been suspended or become a cancer on the team.  Ditto Suh.  The Whit signing was awesome for them because it gave them stability at LT and a veteran leader.  They gave up quite a bit for Brandon Cooks, but they couldn't wait for a rookie to develop.  All of this takes guts, and as a Bengals fan I am a little envious.  However, a small part of me thinks if they don't win the Super Bowl this year, they could come crashing back to earth and have a very different team next season.  

Praising the GM for getting up off the mat after a huge draft bust is fine, but any GM could have put everything on this one season and taken risks on guys like Peters.  Whether they end up with a sustained success is another matter.  

[CJD]

"We barely scouted before. Why would we let a lack of a head coach affect us?"

[SladeX]

(01-23-2019, 08:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am pulling for the Rams and think McVeigh has done a tremendous job as HC that calls the plays. 

That being said, the Rams put ALL their chips on the table for THIS YEAR.  They signed a talented, yet very troubled Marcus Peters.  It panned out.  He could have just as easily been suspended or become a cancer on the team.  Ditto Suh.  The Whit signing was awesome for them because it gave them stability at LT and a veteran leader.  They gave up quite a bit for Brandon Cooks, but they couldn't wait for a rookie to develop.  All of this takes guts, and as a Bengals fan I am a little envious.  However, a small part of me thinks if they don't win the Super Bowl this year, they could come crashing back to earth and have a very different team next season.  

Praising the GM for getting up off the mat after a huge draft bust is fine, but any GM could have put everything on this one season and taken risks on guys like Peters.  Whether they end up with a sustained success is another matter.  

After sooo many years of hearing the rationalizations for the bengal way beingvthat it is a plan for long term success, i could do with a serious, competent, roll of the dice.

[XenoMorph]

(01-22-2019, 04:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: And other notes from Tobin at the Senior Bowl.

https://www.bengals.com/news/scouts-business-as-usual

He would only say the head coaching search is “ongoing.”

He reiterated the club’s future commitment to quarterback Andy Dalton, noting that he’s got plenty of years left beyond his deal that ends in 2020.

He says the game is changing and acknowledged the Bengals need to add more speed to their roster as well linemen on both sides of the ball, which he also says is business as usual. He estimates they’ll have 11 draft picks and could see them doubling up at a position like linebacker.

Goes into some tidbits about coaching search. But didn't break any new ground.

I don't necessarily agree with his take on not needing to know who the coaches are to scout prospects. Scheme can come into play, so it's important to know what scheme fits they are looking for.

well you scout everyone...   Make your reports and then when you know the scheme... You know which players fit it.

[jj22]

It's hard to scout everyone when you lack scouts. Thus I think it's more important to use your resources on scouting players per the scheme.

Other teams with triple the number of scouts can definitely scout all and leave no stone unturned.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-23-2019, 08:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am pulling for the Rams and think McVeigh has done a tremendous job as HC that calls the plays. 

That being said, the Rams put ALL their chips on the table for THIS YEAR.  They signed a talented, yet very troubled Marcus Peters.  It panned out.  He could have just as easily been suspended or become a cancer on the team.  Ditto Suh.  The Whit signing was awesome for them because it gave them stability at LT and a veteran leader.  They gave up quite a bit for Brandon Cooks, but they couldn't wait for a rookie to develop.  All of this takes guts, and as a Bengals fan I am a little envious.  However, a small part of me thinks if they don't win the Super Bowl this year, they could come crashing back to earth and have a very different team next season.  

Praising the GM for getting up off the mat after a huge draft bust is fine, but any GM could have put everything on this one season and taken risks on guys like Peters.  Whether they end up with a sustained success is another matter.  

At the end of the day, a coach who has won a Super Bowl will be looked at in a better light than someone who perpetual had good-not-great teams that never won a championship, even if the coach that won a Super Bowl had an overall losing record in his/her career.