Josh Rosen

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: ZT does not want another QB.  

Right, and my wife is truly the only gal in the world for me.


EDIT - I admit I'm stirring the pot here. I think my first post in this thread was that I expected Rosen to get another concussion or 2 and retire from the NFL to be a politician.

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 01:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think they Taylor will bring in a QB at some point too.

It makes sense to do it this year, but it also doesn't make sense because of the huge list of needs we have and some like RT look likely they can only be filled through the draft. (There aren't a lot of good tackles in free agency.)

Easier said than done (especially when it's the Bengals), but that should motivate them to spend in FA if they're able to get a deal in place for Rosen. A poster above listed that some teams would be willing to offer more than a 3rd for Rosen. If that's the case, you might have to end up adding a 2nd and some more sweeteners but you feel better about it if you sign some good LBs and a guy like Rodger Saffold in FA. Then you draft the best tackle on the board at 11. You send Dalton to Washington to regain some mid round picks you might give up and fill out whatever needs you have remaining.

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-04-2019, 02:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, but it's also possible that they are making a mistake by tossing Rosen aside and some team can capitalize on that mistake.  Or, maybe it just comes down to Rosen being a good QB, but there only being room for a single QB on an NFL field at any given time.  

Now you're just being silly. Unless one of those quarterbacks is the Hefty Lefty Jared Lorenzen, you can fit a bunch of them on the field at once. 

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 02:31 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Easier said than done (especially when it's the Bengals), but that should motivate them to spend in FA if they're able to get a deal in place for Rosen. A poster above listed that some teams would be willing to offer more than a 3rd for Rosen. If that's the case, you might have to end up adding a 2nd and some sweeteners but you feel better about it if you sign some good LBs and a guy like Rodger Saffold in FA. Then you draft the best tackle on the board at 11. You send Dalton to Washington to regain some mid round picks you might give up and fill out whatever holes you have remaining.

Then how do you fill the big hole you create at starting QB?

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 02:32 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Now you're just being silly. Unless one of those quarterbacks is the Hefty Lefty Jared Lorenzen, you can fit a bunch of them on the field at once. 

We should put 3+ QBs out there at once...they'll never know what to think of it!

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: ZT does not want another QB.  

We won't know what ZT wants until the Bengals are able to start signing players and drafting his own guys. Who's to say he's not really interested in Daniel Jones?

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then how do you fill the big hole you create at starting QB?

The past 2 legitimate "this guy will be our starter" QBs we've drafted have been our unquestioned starters for what...15 years?  We are on a roll!  3rd time is the charm.

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then how do you fill the big hole you create at starting QB?

Do you believe that Rosen with his upside and arm talent would a huge downgrade from Dalton?

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-04-2019, 02:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We should put 3+ QBs out there at once...they'll never know what to think of it!

There was Slash. A catchy nickname and innovation.

Taylor can further push the boundaries. "Ampersand." Probably a Josh Johnson type. "Dalton under center here on first down, with & lined up in the slot, possibly some trickery here." 

~, or "Tilde." "Josh Rosen is going to continue to struggle here tilde team drafts a better offensive line. He's been sacked ~290 times and has lost feeling in ~4 body parts."

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 02:38 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Do you believe that Rosen with his upside and arm talent would a huge downgrade from Dalton?

Yes.

Do I really have to list all the first round QBs that have flopped.  Every single on of them had "upside and arm talent".  You don't get drafted in the first round without "upside and arm talent".

[*ochocincos*]

(03-04-2019, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.

Do I really have to list all the first round QBs that have flopped.  Every single on of them had "upside and arm talent".  You don't get drafted in the first round without "upside and arm talent".

I think Rosen's key to success will be to have an OL that will keep him clean while he goes through his progressions. Cincinnati doesn't have that right now.

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.

Do I really have to list all the first round QBs that have flopped.  Every single on of them had "upside and arm talent".  You don't get drafted in the first round without "upside and arm talent".

It's not like Rosen is Christian Ponder or somebody. He showed a lot of ability despite being in a dumpster fire.


Dalton's been in the league for almost 10 years and we feel the need to mention he has a terrible o-line twenty times a day. Rosen can't get a pass as a rookie?

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2019, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.

Do I really have to list all the first round QBs that have flopped.  Every single on of them had "upside and arm talent".  You don't get drafted in the first round without "upside and arm talent".

It makes sense to roll with Dalton, but right now we are so convinced the crap that was the past 3 seasons was on the coaches who are now gone that we may be over-valuing our current players.  If 2019 yields a disappointing W/L ratio it will be interesting to see how people react and where fingers get pointed.

We've "blown up" the coaching room, so we're probably going after the players next.  Anyways, that's just a related take and isn't about you or Rosen, per se.

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 03:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Rosen's key to success will be to have an OL that will keep him clean while he goes through his progressions. Cincinnati doesn't have that right now.

No doubt an OL is important, but we KNOW the key to Dalton being good is having an elite OL. With a QB that has more talent than Dalton, you feel more comfortable having an average OL, or having a bad spot at tackle or guard.

It took Dalton until last year to learn how to extend plays and keep his eyes downfield. Watch some film on Rosen. He did that right from the jump.

[NKURyan]

For the record, I said nothing about trading Dalton. I definitely don't think you just blindly hand the job to Rosen or anyone else they bring in.

[Au165]

(03-04-2019, 03:18 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: No doubt an OL is important, but we KNOW the key to Dalton being good is having an elite OL. With a QB that has more talent than Dalton, you feel more comfortable having an average OL, or having a bad spot at tackle or guard.

It took Dalton until last year to learn how to extend plays and keep his eyes downfield. Watch some film on Rosen. He did that right from the jump.

Huh? Not sure how someone gets sacked on 10.3% of their drop backs and we are applauding their ability to extend plays and keep their eyes down field. I watched him play, what you call keeping eyes down field I call being oblivious to pressure and being unable to step and slide away from it Fun fact, Dalton has never been sacked more than 8% of his drop backs with a a career average of 5.8%. It's not like Rosen was taking sacks to get vertical either as his 5.8 Yards per Attempt is lower than any year of Dalton's career by almost a full yard.

Dalton without an off season because of the lockout was far better than Rosen as a rookie.

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 03:12 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: It's not like Rosen is Christian Ponder or somebody. He showed a lot of ability despite being in a dumpster fire.

You are correct.  Rosen is not Ponder.  Ponder had a higher passer rating his rookie season than Rosen did.

(03-04-2019, 03:18 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: It took Dalton until last year to learn how to extend plays and keep his eyes downfield. Watch some film on Rosen. He did that right from the jump.

Wrong and wrong.

[Whodey614]

I'm not saying throw Dalton away for a 6th rounder and that Rosen is the next Dan Marino. I have no doubt in my mind that Dalton can be better under a new coach and culture. I'm just saying the Bengals already went all in on a new coaching staff. Roster changes will happen as they evaluate the roster. QB will most likely be the first major one. The Bengals have too many holes to fill unless they plan on going crazy in free agency. The Bengals will most likely win 5 or 6 games next year. What's the difference between going 6-10 with Dalton and going 6-10 with Rosen? At least if the latter shows some promise, you're hopeful for the future. If you stick with Dalton and they struggle again you're worried about QB. Why wait for that happen if you think your guy is on the market or in this year's draft?

[Whodey614]

(03-04-2019, 03:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dalton without an off season because of the lockout was far better than Rosen as a rookie.

He also had this guy named AJ Green, a 1000 yard rusher, a top 7 defense led by Mike Zimmer and an OL that only allowed 25 sacks.

[fredtoast]

(03-04-2019, 03:34 PM)Whodey614 Wrote:  Roster changes will happen as they evaluate the roster. QB will most likely be the first major one.

No it won't.

(03-04-2019, 03:34 PM)Whodey614 Wrote:  What's the difference between going 6-10 with Dalton and going 6-10 with Rosen? At least if the latter shows some promise, you're hopeful for the future.

Dalton has proven he can win in the NFL.  Rosen has looked like trash and has not shown anything that would indicate he will ever be a better NFL QB than Dalton.

Over the past decade there have been 284 QB seasons with at least 300 attempts.  Rosen's 66.7 rating last year ranks 277 out of those 284.  Other than DeShone Kizer in 2017 you have to go back 6 years to find a season as bad as Rosen's.

He also has one of the worst sack rates and fumbled 10 times in 14 games while Dalton has only fumbled 5 times in the last 2 seasons combined.