Whitworth interview....

[Benton]

(03-02-2019, 06:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I was talking about walking away from the contract after year one, which was the only year that was totally guaranteed.

As for Whit wanting to stay, I don't think there's any real doubt that he did. He's stated it many times in different interviews that his goal was to retire a Bengal, and if Melissa's account is accurate...he's was wanting to stay right up to the very end. 
 HIT
DEAD CAP
YEARLY CASH

(03-02-2019, 09:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Cedric play zero as rookie, Fsher got hurt no way you can predict busts, they had more investment in them then Whit and he was talking retirement put that season... and I guess people forget we signed him to 3 contracts at least in this cateer.. so not like we did not care about him

Whit wanted to stay, the fo knew that, so they lowballed him and used og as leverage. The fo thought they could sign him for one year deals on the cheap till he retired, or until they replaced him with og. 

And no, the fo didn't care about him. Granted, I think they care more about the players than most teams, but  not that much.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-02-2019, 10:43 PM)Benton Wrote: Whit wanted to stay, the fo knew that, so they lowballed him and used og as leverage. The fo thought they could sign him for one year deals on the cheap till he retired, or until they replaced him with og. 

And no, the fo didn't care about him. Granted, I think they care more about the players than most teams, but  not that much.

I really believed they thought they had the best offer to Whitworth. They told everyone at the combine that he was coming back.

Franchise tagging him was the best option.

Honestly, it's unheard of for Tackles to play at a Pro Bowl level past 35 years old.

We all know that had the Bengals offerred him a huge 3 year deal that his play likely falls off a cliff here.

[*Nately120*]

(03-02-2019, 02:58 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: -This guy is no longer on the team why do I have to hear every breath uttered from thie fool in the Bengals section of this website it should not be here.

My guess is because he is giving us some insight to the mindset and practices of people who are very much still here in the front office.  This sort of thing isn't so much about Whitworth as it is about finding out how the Browns and company do things.  It's the same reason a story about the Akili Smith draft blunder is still applicable in Cincy for decades and, for example, the Matt Millen crap GM-ing isn't applicable in Detroit any longer.  This article is about our front office more than a player who left years ago.


That's just my take, though.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 12:12 AM)Nately120 Wrote: My guess is because he is giving us some insight to the mindset and practices of people who are very much still here in the front office.  This sort of thing isn't so much about Whitworth as it is about finding out how the Browns and company do things.  It's the same reason a story about the Akili Smith draft blunder is still applicable in Cincy for decades and, for example, the Matt Millen crap GM-ing isn't applicable in Detroit any longer.  This article is about our front office more than a player who left years ago.


That's just my take, though.

Whitworth definately felt hurt the way the Bengals handled things. And yes...Troy Blackburn was who texted the agent that the Bengals didn't value Whitworth at that much.

Those articles make it sound like the Bengals destroyed that relationship.

But, I do kind of get the Bengals take. Guys generally don't play at a Pro Bowl level past 35 years old. The strange side is that several teams apparently beat the Bengals offer.

[TheUberHuber]

(03-02-2019, 04:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He blew chunks, but how often does a team give up on a 1st round draft pick after only a few games? 

...and again, Whit was 36. We all know it's rare for a player that age to sustain elite play. Heck, I can't think of any tackles that played this well at 36-37 years old. I'm sure there's a few, but I can't think of any without looking it up. Point is, it's rare. The Bengals gambled that he'd probably fall off. They lost the bet. That doesn't mean they were stupid to look at the odds. 

Since when is 21 games considered a "few?"

[Shake n Blake]

(03-03-2019, 02:01 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Since when is 21 games considered a "few?"

Ogbuehi had only 12 starts by the time Whit left. Not sure what you're talking about. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OgbuCe00.htm

Whit left in 2017.

[Sled21]

Whitworth got a major case of the red A$$ and threw a fit the minute the Bengals started drafting linemen. He evidently was "offended" that they would try to get his replacement in place. Anyone with any common sense knows you can't play this game forever, and he has long surpassed the average length of career for a lineman. That's why he wanted a multi year deal instead of staying here and finishing his career on a year to year contract, even if it was for the same money. Even HE knew playing year to year was risky at his age, and signing him to a long term deal would not have been the smart play, even if he has apparently beaten time for the time being.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 11:45 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Whitworth got a major case of the red A$$ and threw a fit the minute the Bengals started drafting linemen. He evidently was "offended" that they would try to get his replacement in place. Anyone with any common sense knows you can't play this game forever, and he has long surpassed the average length of career for a lineman. That's why he wanted a multi year deal instead of staying here and finishing his career on a year to year contract, even if it was for the same money. Even HE knew playing year to year was risky at his age, and signing him to a long term deal would not have been the smart play, even if he has apparently beaten time for the time being.

Yeah...I agree with that all. I just think they could have just franchise tagged him.

I thought the Bengals offered him 2 years?

It is curious that several other teams offered him better contracts than the Bengals though.

As for the price, we had cap space. We could have did it.

That said, I doubt we would have been a 10-11 game winning team with Whit. We were bad at several other positions on the line, but it would have helped us.

[THE Bigzoman]

The front office can't be defended here.

Judging from Whitworth's desire to stay in Cincy, we probably could've signed him for a lesser deal than what he accepted. The fact that they didn't even try and sent that text to Whit is a slap in the face to someone who was everything we needed him to be and much more.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 01:58 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: The front office can't be defended here.

Judging from Whitworth's desire to stay in Cincy, we probably could've signed him for a lesser deal than what he accepted. The fact that they didn't even try and sent that text to Whit is a slap in the face to someone who was everything we needed him to be and much more.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

The only defense I see is a partial one and that is that Tackles hit a cliff at age 35. Whitworth has been the exception.

That said, on both Whitworth and Zeitler they likely could have extended them BEFORE they hit free agency. And they could have franchise tagged 1 of them.

From what I read, they didn't even try to extend Zeitler. His cost may have been lower had they done it BEFORE DeCastro signed with the Steelers.

The Bengals had it in their mind that they just didn't want to pay a Guard that much...as they didn't want to pay an ageing Whitworth.

[Whatever]

(03-02-2019, 06:09 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The only thing I would disagree with is that matching the Rams deal wouldn't have been much a risk at all for the Bengals. It was basically a one year deal, with an option for 2 more. If Whit showed signs of falling after the 1st year, they could have simply walked away from the deal being out a total of 15m. Given what we had seen from OG and Fisher to that point, that didn't seem like a huge gamble to take for at least one more year of Whit.

I think the Bengals were in a tough spot...having drafted 2 tackles, hoping one would be Whit's eventual successor, and the fact that Whit was an aging LT with no guarantees that his performance wouldn't take a nose dive. IMO, the best move would've have been to do a deal similar to the Rams, where you get at least one more year of Whit - hoping that he still plays fairly well - while giving yourself more time to evaluate and get a better feel about what you have in Og and/or Fisher.

The Bengals couldn't have cut Whit without a fan uprising.  We saw all the negative backlash when they cut Big Willie even though it was clear he was done.  A lot of us just have our blinders on when it comes to Whit.  Lots of peeps said he played great in the SB, but when you watch the tape, he gave up a sack, several hits and hurries, and gave no effort in the run game the whole first half.  Unless he became Ogbuehi level bad, the fan base would scream bloody murder.

[Whatever]

(03-03-2019, 11:45 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Whitworth got a major case of the red A$$ and threw a fit the minute the Bengals started drafting linemen. He evidently was "offended" that they would try to get his replacement in place. Anyone with any common sense knows you can't play this game forever, and he has long surpassed the average length of career for a lineman. That's why he wanted a multi year deal instead of staying here and finishing his career on a year to year contract, even if it was for the same money. Even HE knew playing year to year was risky at his age, and signing him to a long term deal would not have been the smart play, even if he has apparently beaten time for the time being.

Definitely.  He also complained about being in a contract year without an extension a couple of years prior to that in the media.

The multiple stories out of the Whitworth camp are also funny.  When he first signed with the Rams,he said he had made up his mind on leaving when he hit UFA.  Now, we hear he didn't want to leave.

At the end of the day, Whit was a great Bengal who left for more money.  I don't blame him for that.  He has every right to set his own priorities.  I just wish he'd quit whining about it.  Maybe in a perfect world, he wanted the Bengals to give him a better offer so he could stay, and that's nice and all, but that's not any kind of loyalty on his part.  He made his choice, and should move on with his life.  He sounds like a high school girl that got dumped before prom telling the whole school all the terrible things her ex did to her while still wanting him back.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 02:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals couldn't have cut Whit without a fan uprising.  We saw all the negative backlash when they cut Big Willie even though it was clear he was done.  A lot of us just have our blinders on when it comes to Whit.  Lots of peeps said he played great in the SB, but when you watch the tape, he gave up a sack, several hits and hurries, and gave no effort in the run game the whole first half.  Unless he became Ogbuehi level bad, the fan base would scream bloody murder.

In PFF's Top 100 players of 2018, he graded out as the 29th best player at ANY POSITION:

29. ANDREW WHITWORTH, LOS ANGELES RAMS

Top 101 appearances: 7
Simply put, there hasn’t been a more consistent performer at the left tackle position than Whitworth, and at age 37, Whitworth continued his premier play this season. His overall grade of 82.7 was good for fifth among all offensive tackles in the NFL through the regular season, and as always, the All-Pro was as solid as they come in pass protection where he allowed 33 total pressures from 601 pass-blocking snaps.

[Benton]

(03-02-2019, 11:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I really believed they thought they had the best offer to Whitworth. They told everyone at the combine that he was coming back.

Franchise tagging him was the best option.

Honestly, it's unheard of for Tackles to play at a Pro Bowl level past 35 years old.

We all know that had the Bengals offerred him a huge 3 year deal that his play likely falls off a cliff here.

Oh, I agree, I think they thought he was coming back. But I think they were relying on his wanting to come back moreso than the quality of their offer.

As far as his play falling off if we offered him a big payday, I don't think so. Just my opinion, but I don't think whits that kind of guy. Even on garbage years, he still did his job when a lot of the guys were already in postseason mode.

[McC]

The Whitworths got to move on, go to a SB, live in LA. And yet, they still have sour grapes? WTF? They made their choice and they can't live with it?

Maybe 99% of Bengal fans can't turn the page but I sure as hell can. He's the second best LT we've ever had, he was a team stalwart and a giant in the community and he's been a Ram for two years now. End of story.

Get the **** over it Bengal fans. Stop insisting on self torture. For shit sake, when is enough ever enough? If somebody brings this up in ten years, will the tears flow all over again? The FO guessed wrong. Shit happens and then you move on.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 04:34 PM)McC Wrote: The Whitworths got to move on, go to a SB, live in LA.  And yet, they still have sour grapes?  WTF?  They made their choice and they can't live with it?

Maybe 99% of Bengal fans can't turn the page but I sure as hell can.  He's the second best LT we've ever had, he was a team stalwart and a giant in the community and he's been a Ram for two years now.  End of story.

Get the **** over it Bengal fans.  Stop insisting on self torture.  For shit sake, when is enough ever enough?  If somebody brings this up in ten years, will the tears flow all over again?   The FO guessed wrong.  Shit happens and then you move on.

I agree...and I think a lot of fans see how bad the offensive line is and attribute that to Whitworth leaving...which was part of it. But, even with Whitworth, our line would have still had 3 bad starters.

I doubt that it's a Top 10-15 unit. Maybe instead of being the worst it's the 25th best line?

Then, this past year with all the injuries and poor LB and poor offensive line play...I doubt we contend.

My plan would have been to try to extend Zeitler a year or 2 before he was a free agent. Then franchise tag Whitworth for a year.

[Whatever]

(03-03-2019, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In PFF's Top 100 players of 2018, he graded out as the 29th best player at ANY POSITION:

29. ANDREW WHITWORTH, LOS ANGELES RAMS

Top 101 appearances: 7
Simply put, there hasn’t been a more consistent performer at the left tackle position than Whitworth, and at age 37, Whitworth continued his premier play this season. His overall grade of 82.7 was good for fifth among all offensive tackles in the NFL through the regular season, and as always, the All-Pro was as solid as they come in pass protection where he allowed 33 total pressures from 601 pass-blocking snaps.

If he was still playing at that level if we had hypothetically resigned him, he wouldn't be cut.  However, the odds were/are very long that he would still be playing at that level.  You also have to consider that the Rams run a ton of play action, which helps the OL in pass pro.

My point was, it's different for the Bengals trying to cut him than it is for the Rams.  The Rams fan base simply doesn't have the emotional attachment to Whit that most Bengals fans do.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

He's a Ram. Let it go.

[Sled21]

(03-03-2019, 04:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree...and I think a lot of fans see how bad the offensive line is and attribute that to Whitworth leaving...which was part of it. But, even with Whitworth, our line would have still had 3 bad starters.

I doubt that it's a Top 10-15 unit. Maybe instead of being the worst it's the 25th best line?

Then, this past year with all the injuries and poor LB and poor offensive line play...I doubt we contend.

My plan would have been to try to extend Zeitler a year or 2 before he was a free agent. Then franchise tag Whitworth for a year.

I erased it but I wish I still had the photo of all our linemen, including Zeitler and Whit, on the ground with several tacklers hammering Andy. Since people seem to remember our line being so great and all when they were here.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-03-2019, 08:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I erased it but I wish I still had the photo of all our linemen, including Zeitler and Whit, on the ground with several tacklers hammering Andy. Since people seem to remember our line being so great and all when they were here.

The sack numbers per year are interesting:

In 2018, we gave up 39 sacks.
In 2017, we gave up 40 sacks.
It's traditionally been better in pass protection than run blocking too. In 2016, Dalton was sacked 41 times.
In 2015, we gave up 32 sacks.