Option A or Option B?

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-19-2019, 02:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Idk man...had we not signed Hart, I think we had to consider a Tackle ASAP. You never know how the draft will shake out, and if we'd let Hart go and ignored Tackle at #11, what happens if there was a run on Tackles? Or if all of our favorites were taken before our pick(s)? You can't look for perceived value when you have a gaping hole.

I think that's partially why we signed Hart. We paid to open up the draft a bit.

I tend to agree.  If the Bengals did not sign Hart, they would most likely be forced to reach for BPA at OT position at 11.  

[Schmitbuck]

(03-19-2019, 02:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right we can get a tackle on Day 2, no need to go for 1 in round 1 or even in round 2 for that matter (unless the value is there). Not all over the place at all, maybe read the context better?

Ehh, you responded to me saying we didn't need to get o-line in the first 3 rounds because of defense. Then send said we could/should to someone else and now me in the same conversation. Maybe learn to quote better or have a consistent opinion?

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 02:15 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Ehh, you responded to me saying we didn't need to get o-line in the first 3 rounds because of defense. Then send said we could/should to someone else and now me in the same conversation. Maybe learn to quote better or have a consistent opinion?

You said we need to address it in the first 3 rounds, it was written as if all 3 picks needs to be o line to me. I have been saying we are not forced to take anyone anywhere. If you're not saying all 3 need to be O line then I agree with that.

[Whatever]

(03-19-2019, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Last year linemen drafted in the 2nd who started atleast 10 games....

Will Hernandez, Braden Smith, James Daniels, Connor Williams, Brian O'Neil. 

Fun fact....5 of 6 O linemen drafted in the second round started at least 10 games as rookies. This year will be o different, especially in a really deep tackle class that the difference between tackle 2 and tackle 7 is minimal.

The majority of those guys are guards, which isn't really pertinent to the discussion.  Most of them were also not Day 1 starters.  They started on the bench and either worked their way into the lineup during the year or were forced into the lineup due to injury.  I would not call 2 guys who were forced to start due to injury a bunch of Day 1 starters.

[grampahol]

(03-19-2019, 12:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know that we can bank on the line improving due to another year passing.

We thought Ced and Fisher would improve and they didn't.

Miller was bad for parts of 3 years in Buffalo then decent last year, but he still was worse than Redmond pass blocking.

Glenn has been injured each of the past 3 years. Chances are he'll be injured this year...then who do you go to?

Boling, while our best lineman has been showing signs of decline.

But, but, but Ced is now with the Jags and we have to play them at PBS this year and undoubtedly he'll be their starter and shut out our entire D line..  Are ya scared yet? 

[*Synric*]

(03-19-2019, 02:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: The majority of those guys are guards, which isn't really pertinent to the discussion.  Most of them were also not Day 1 starters.  They started on the bench and either worked their way into the lineup during the year or were forced into the lineup due to injury.  I would not call 2 guys who were forced to start due to injury a bunch of Day 1 starters.

And I believe of that list only Brian O'Neil was available past pick 40.

[Benton]

(03-19-2019, 10:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He is my problem with the Bengals offseason, they brought back known mediocre players at the risk of trying to actually upgrade.

Option A:
RT Bobby Hart: 3 years $16 to 21 million. We'll call it $18 million as he will hit some of his incentives. So $6 million a year. He graded out at 56.2 or the #69 Tackle.

G John Miller: 3 years, $16.5 million. So $5.5 million a year. He's generally been up and down through his career. Last year, he was good in run blocking and poor in pass protection. 64.3 PFF, #25 Guard.

There is a pretty sizeable risk to Miller. He struggled in a zone blocking scheme and his pass protection was actually worse than Redmond last year. He is a good run blocker though.

That's $11.5 million between those 2 players.

Use 1st or 2nd Round pick on a position other than Tackle.



Option B:
Guard Rodger Saffold - 4 years $44 million. We'll simplify that to $11 million a year. Graded out at 72.8 which was the #9 Guard.

Use 1st or 2nd Round pick on a Tackle.

Sign Andre Smith as a backup Tackle.

This costs probably $2 million or so more than Option B, but you get an elite Guard like Saffold with way less risk than Miller. Starting a drafted Tackle is a bit of a risk, but Bobby Hart has been in the league for 4 years and he's mediocre. One of the worst starting Tackles in the league. Chance are a drafted Tackle won't be worse...and could be better.

What do you think? Also, do you have any other Options?

The Bengals weren't paying north of $10 million for Zeitler, I can't see them signing Saffold for more. 

We got a couple journeymen linemen to keep the line going for a couple seasons while we develop players.

(03-19-2019, 11:43 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's wrong with drafting a T at 11?

There isn't a tackle in this draft worth #11.

[Schmitbuck]

(03-19-2019, 02:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: You said we need to address it in the first 3 rounds, it was written as if all 3 picks needs to be o line to me. I have been saying we are not forced to take anyone anywhere. If you're not saying all 3 need to be O line then I agree with that.

I wrote we need to address the o-line "in" the first 3 rounds, not we need to address "with" the first 3 rounds. It's ok to say you read it wrong.

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 02:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: The majority of those guys are guards, which isn't really pertinent to the discussion.  Most of them were also not Day 1 starters.  They started on the bench and either worked their way into the lineup during the year or were forced into the lineup due to injury.  I would not call 2 guys who were forced to start due to injury a bunch of Day 1 starters.

Braden Smith was a guard that played Tackle and was very good for the colts. I'd disagree they all played well enough, especially relative to our line to be considered good enough to be day 1 guys. 

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 03:11 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I wrote we need to address the o-line "in" the first 3 rounds, not we need to address "with" the first 3 rounds. It's ok to say you read it wrong.

I read it as written. Maybe adding a "in one of the first 3 rounds" would have conveyed your point better? Either way sure, it looks like we will take an O lineman by the end of day 2.

[sandwedge]

(03-19-2019, 12:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So your ideal message board would be a bunch of posts that say: 'Wow - Nice move! Let's see how the season plays out!'

There is a lot of research out there on players that lets you see Hart has been bad. Miller mediocre. And Saffold a Top 10 Guard.

People just choose to ignore the past track record and call Saffold old and assume he will decline, while assuming Miller and Hart will improve.

Not even close. I actually agree with you on a lot of things, that I perceive is wrong. I just intend to think, there is not a lot I can do about it and I don't make it my life long ambition to piss and moan every second of the day...

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 03:58 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not even close. I actually agree with you on a lot of things, that I perceive is wrong. I just intend to think, there is not a lot I can do about it and I don't make it my life long ambition to piss and moan every second of the day...

I'll say Hart was bad, but Hart didn't torpedo our season last year. One bad guy on the line isn't a show stopper. I think if Miller can be average then the line as a whole should be okay with a chance to be good if we get a rookie tackle somewhere.

[Whatever]

(03-19-2019, 03:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Braden Smith was a guard that played Tackle and was very good for the colts. I'd disagree they all played well enough, especially relative to our line to be considered good enough to be day 1 guys. 

Smith is one of the two guys that I counted as a T, and he was thrust into the lineup due to the Colts' OL getting ravaged by injury.

Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if 6 T's are gone by the time we pick in round 2.  With the money that's being thrown around in FA, smart teams will be planning ahead and there will also be teams drafting for immediate need.

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 04:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: Smith is one of the two guys that I counted as a T, and he was thrust into the lineup due to the Colts' OL getting ravaged by injury.

Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if 6 T's are gone by the time we pick in round 2.  With the money that's being thrown around in FA, smart teams will be planning ahead and there will also be teams drafting for immediate need.

This is such a strong defensive draft I think only 4 tackles go in the 1st, assuming Jonah Williams is taken as a tackle. Second round is always tough to predict with guys falling, but Risner and McGary I feel confident will be there at or around within a couple of picks of our 2nd pick. If we get to the 3rd Howard I think could be a day 1 starter, but I think someone like Isaiah Prince may need a year. 

[depthchart]

(03-19-2019, 03:58 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not even close. I actually agree with you on a lot of things, that I perceive is wrong. I just intend to think, there is not a lot I can do about it and I don't make it my life long ambition to piss and moan every second of the day...

A person would need to constantly drink a lot of water to be able to piss & moan every second of the day.

They would need to be pissing while they were drinking, then moaning when they weren't drinking and be able to do it in their sleep.

[sandwedge]

(03-19-2019, 04:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'll say Hart was bad, but Hart didn't torpedo our season last year. One bad guy on the line isn't a show stopper. I think if Miller can be average then the line as a whole should be okay with a chance to be good if we get a rookie tackle somewhere.

I totally agree with that. 

[sandwedge]

(03-19-2019, 04:27 PM)depthchart Wrote: A person would need to constantly drink a lot of water to be able to piss & moan every second of the day.

They would need to be pissing while they were drinking, then moaning when they weren't drinking and be able to do it in their sleep.

[Joelist]

I just hope we are willing to trade up if need be to get the player we want. The problem with drafts like this one is if you go in with it totally obvious what player you want odds are you don't get them. And we need LB in a significant way.

[Whatever]

(03-19-2019, 04:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is such a strong defensive draft I think only 4 tackles go in the 1st, assuming Jonah Williams is taken as a tackle. Second round is always tough to predict with guys falling, but Risner and McGary I feel confident will be there at or around within a couple of picks of our 2nd pick. If we get to the 3rd Howard I think could be a day 1 starter, but I think someone like Isaiah Prince may need a year. 

It's a very strong defensive draft, but it was also a very strong FA market for defense.  It was a weak FA for offense, particularly T, TE, and WR.  With T and WR being premium positions, I can see teams reaching for those positions early and letting defensive talent fall to them later.  

An issue with the depth of this year's T class is the lack of stud interior OL.  Several of the top T's could be drafted to plug a hole at G and then eventually move to T.  

Risner screams New England Patriot to me with the loss of Brown.  They love those Swiss Army Knife type guys that can play multiple spots.  McGary is a good overall prospect, but he has a lot of technique issues that need to be coached up and he will be behind his rookie year due to the Pac-12 graduation rules.  I wouldn't mind him in 2, but he would be a guy I would want to sit for a year.  I despise Prince.  He's got talent and will stick around a few years because of it, but the guy is just mentally weak and I don't think he ever puts it all together.

[Au165]

(03-19-2019, 07:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's a very strong defensive draft, but it was also a very strong FA market for defense.  It was a weak FA for offense, particularly T, TE, and WR.  With T and WR being premium positions, I can see teams reaching for those positions early and letting defensive talent fall to them later.  

An issue with the depth of this year's T class is the lack of stud interior OL.  Several of the top T's could be drafted to plug a hole at G and then eventually move to T.  

Risner screams New England Patriot to me with the loss of Brown.  They love those Swiss Army Knife type guys that can play multiple spots.  McGary is a good overall prospect, but he has a lot of technique issues that need to be coached up and he will be behind his rookie year due to the Pac-12 graduation rules.  I wouldn't mind him in 2, but he would be a guy I would want to sit for a year.  I despise Prince.  He's got talent and will stick around a few years because of it, but the guy is just mentally weak and I don't think he ever puts it all together.

Patriots took Wynn last year he will step in and not miss a beat, they won’t go tackle in the 1st. McGary is fine technique wise and I have no concerns he is any less able to step in than a guy like Dillard. The pac 12 rule ( really an NFL rule) is gone so that is a non factor here.