Green is great-but is he really ELITE?

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 03:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: When your the Guy... Dropping Easy Touchdowns Does NOT FLY....

Except every single WR in the league does the same thing from time to time.


You guys need a little perspective.

[type_stripe]

(09-18-2015, 02:32 PM)rungiorun25 Wrote: I've been having this debate for couple seasons with my friends...mind you I'm the Bengals fan in these conversations..

I get ripped a new one when I say that AJ Green...IS NOT ELITE.
I love AJ, hes got skills and the look of a top tier, elite WR..but he just doesn't have that drive or ego or w/e to make him a top tier WR.

He cuts routes off, he tries to make his own, he doesn't go after the ball... its not mistake Andy has a lot of INT in his direction..they try to convince everyone they are on the same page, but when those INT's come its clear Andy is not AJ's head on where AJ is planning on going.

AJ is a top ten receiver no doubt..but if were putting him in the conversation with Dez, Megatron, possibly Antonio Brown, etc...I don't think he has the same mentality or drive as those guys.

hes got stats to show he can be among elite..but just imagine what his stats can be if he had just a little more edge to him.

His stats show he is elite. He is one of the crispiest route runners in the league. Yes he makes mistakes but every player messes up. but it's still less than those other Too WRs.He's done more in his first 4 seasons than most of the "top 10"

Ego and mentality doesn't make an elite. It makes leaders or assholes in the locker room. Plus it puts a target on the players' backs if their ego/mentality isn't appreciated. Be happy AJ doesn't act like those guys but still performs on the same level.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-18-2015, 03:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except every single WR in the league does the same thing from time to time.


You guys need a little perspective.

What people need to realize is that he has a lower drop percentage over the last four years than Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson, Des Bryant, and Calvin Johnson; also known as some of the other "elite" WRs in the league.  People point out a few recent drops because they remember them.  It's not like it's a sign of a larger problem. All receivers that get 150 targets per year are going to let a few of them bounce of off of their hands.

Green's numbers are elite. It's a fact, and it's silly to say otherwise.

[Utts]

(09-18-2015, 02:08 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: At least you underrate everyone on the Bengals team.

Proof?

[Utts]

(09-18-2015, 02:13 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: He has hit a slump as of recently...

Bengalized.

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-18-2015, 02:32 PM)rungiorun25 Wrote: I've been having this debate for couple seasons with my friends...mind you I'm the Bengals fan in these conversations..

I get ripped a new one when I say that AJ Green...IS NOT ELITE.
I love AJ, hes got skills and the look of a top tier, elite WR..but he just doesn't have that drive or ego or w/e to make him a top tier WR.

He cuts routes off, he tries to make his own, he doesn't go after the ball... its not mistake Andy has a lot of INT in his direction..they try to convince everyone they are on the same page, but when those INT's come its clear Andy is not AJ's head on where AJ is planning on going.

AJ is a top ten receiver no doubt..but if were putting him in the conversation with Dez, Megatron, possibly Antonio Brown, etc...I don't think he has the same mentality or drive as those guys.

hes got stats to show he can be among elite..but just imagine what his stats can be if he had just a little more edge to him.

This.

[type_stripe]

(09-19-2015, 03:05 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: This.

This makes no sense since stats say otherwise. So what are you guys crying about still? Point out any specific thing that AJ does that those you consider "elite" don't. You're just acting foolish.

[Bengalstripes9]

I'd take AJ over any other receiver in the NFL. Saying that, I have to admit to being bias on the subject because I'm a big fan of his. According to his stats over the past 4 years, I think it's safe to say he's elite.

That being said, he could be better in big games, as has been pointed out. The play that sticks out in my mind is dropping the late touchdown against San Diego in the playoffs. That being said, there's no player on our team that we can really say played their best ball in the playoffs.

It's a team game. If our team wins, everyone will look good. Unless AJ drops a ball that could've made the final score 40-14 last week..

[Brownshoe]

(09-19-2015, 02:38 AM)Utts Wrote: Proof?

Look at almost any post you ever posted.

[Utts]

(09-19-2015, 12:11 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Look at almost any post you ever posted.

That's what I thought. No proof. Liar.

[Guy Incognito]

(09-18-2015, 06:16 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: What people need to realize is that he has a lower drop percentage over the last four years than Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson, Des Bryant, and Calvin Johnson; also known as some of the other "elite" WRs in the league.  People point out a few recent drops because they remember them.  It's not like it's a sign of a larger problem. All receivers that get 150 targets per year are going to let a few of them bounce of off of their hands.

Green's numbers are elite. It's a fact, and it's silly to say otherwise.

Yes!  There's no one in the league that runs a route perfect 100% of the time or catches every single ball.  AJ is a darn fine fellow.

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-19-2015, 03:28 AM)type_stripe Wrote: This makes no sense since stats say otherwise. So what are you guys crying about still? Point out any specific thing that AJ does that those you consider "elite" don't. You're just acting foolish.

*shrugs* 

I'm not doing any crying. I am publicly saying my opinion, in a public debate? I thought that was the point of this thread and others? I didn't realize since I didn't agree with you that, in some way, I was 'foolish' and 'crying'. I completely apologize.

[type_stripe]

(09-20-2015, 05:33 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: *shrugs* 

I'm not doing any crying. I am publicly saying my opinion, in a public debate? I thought that was the point of this thread and others? I didn't realize since I didn't agree with you that, in some way, I was 'foolish' and 'crying'. I completely apologize.

Have your opinion of Green. My opinion of your opinion is that it is foolish based on the facts presented in this thread by several other posters. My opinion of your problems with his route running, hands, etc. is it sounds like crying over little things that all WRs, even the elites, do wrong at times. 

So back to the question: what do you see AJ do that Dez, Megatron, Julio, even Brown don't do? I'd really like to know specifics instead of broad things. 

[djs7685]

Just watched AB drop a TD pass from Vick that would have put their team up.

He must have missed the memo that elite WRs never have that kind of drop.

[Joe Pong]

My only issue with Green is he seems too passive sometimes. He needs to take over games more.

Just doesn't make the contested catches as much as he used to.

Every WR drops passes. Seemed like every game I ever watched, Jerry Rice would drop a pass- then the announcers would say, " there's something you don't see every game." And I would say, yes, I do see that every game and the announcers still say the same thing.

[Utts]

(10-01-2015, 10:16 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Just watched AB drop a TD pass from Vick that would have put their team up.

He must have missed the memo that elite WRs never have that kind of drop.

Clever straw man argument.

[McC]

(09-19-2015, 02:40 AM)Utts Wrote: Bengalized.

He kinda made a big ol' liar outa you, eh?

[McC]

(09-19-2015, 03:28 AM)type_stripe Wrote: This makes no sense since stats say otherwise. So what are you guys crying about still? Point out any specific thing that AJ does that those you consider "elite" don't. You're just acting foolish.

It's a weird obsession that some people have to take potshots at what is great.  How many of them are running back here to acknowledge the greatness he put on display Sunday?

[djs7685]

(10-02-2015, 03:25 AM)Utts Wrote: Clever straw man argument.

Do you even know what that term means?

I didn't even target a poster specifically in an argument, it was simply a statement in response to the idiots claiming that "elite WRs don't drop easy passes" or "elite WRs don't drop TD passes".

I pointed out earlier in the thread when Dez let a ball fall right out of his hands on a routine short route on a 3rd and 3 in the red zone in a primetime game. Now I pointed out that AB dropped an easy touchdown that most WRs (AB included) catch that 99 out of 100 times when it hits their hands and chest like that.

My response was directed at anyone who said A.J. isn't elite because of the "bad drops". If your reasoning was literally anything else, guess what? It wasn't about you! It's not a straw man when it wasn't directed at anybody that didn't fit the description, doofus.

I don't even know why I'm responding to an Utts post with a serious reply though, I honestly don't think there's a person on here on any "side" that takes anything you say the slightest bit seriously.

[Luvnit2]

I agree all WR's drop passes, but I disagree with a diving attempt (I do think he should have caught it) versus a clear drop are 2 different things. I love AJ, but he can't have simple LOS passes go through his hands, hit his helmet and go 15 yards up in the air. AJ proved his elite talent last week, but he also proved he needs to focus every play as he was lucky his drop was not a pic or a pic 6. Fix these issues and stay focused every down, he could end up being one of the best to ever play the game.

Everyone wants to label some players early in the career great or bad, the reality is AJ is still a young NFL receiver (experience) and I think his best days are ahead.