Will they really pick a LBer in 1st round ?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-28-2019, 03:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: This is a bad LB class, frankly.  If White and Bush came out last year, White would be the 4th ranked LB and Bush would be ranked 6th.  Bush wouldn't even be in the discussion as a 1st rounder, let alone at 11 in a good class.  

They are also probably of the opinion that the old staff wasn't properly developing young talent.  Except for Brown, every LB on the roster is still on their rookie deal and should be showing steady improvement.

All true which is why we need to take White or Bush early this year, just the way it is.

Marv and Haslett put us in this situation.

(03-28-2019, 03:16 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm thinking if a high rated QB is still there we have to consider making some moves for more picks or draft him outright to either try and develop ourselves behind Dalton - or use as trade bait next year. And if he works out, we trade Dalton.

It gives us an extra year and 2 drafts to find our guy if they decide not to resign Dalton.

And i don't think it will be hard to unload either option considering the league is QB crazy.

Nah, we need a RT and a Linebacker early. This is not a great draft for QB's either. Need to wait a year or two depending how much better Dalton is this season. I am predicting a monster year for him if the RT position is addressed properly. I know that Dalton hasn't been a great QB but he still isn't the problem with this team.

[Atomic Orange]

(03-28-2019, 03:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true which is why we need to take White or Bush early this year, just the way it is.

Marv and Haslett put us in this situation.


Nah, we need a RT and a Linebacker early. This is not a great draft for QB's either. Need to wait a year or two depending how much better Dalton is this season. I am predicting a monster year for him if the RT position is addressed properly. I know that Dalton hasn't been a great QB but he still isn't the problem with this team.

I'm not saying he is the problem, in fact i often defend him as not being the problem. I also want to see what he does behind a new staff. But with all of these big contracts being signed and Greens coming up - it is definitely time to start fishing so we can get cheaper at the position while continuing to build around the position.

I have agreed this doesn't appear to be the year to draft his replacement but if other teams are going nuts trying to find their guy and are willing to spend big, perhaps we should at least consider giving up # 11 for more picks. Especially considering our recent #1 results. (HUGE factor here)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-28-2019, 04:17 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm not saying he is the problem, in fact i often defend him as not being the problem. I also want to see what he does behind a new staff. But with all of these big contracts being signed and Greens coming up - it is definitely time to start fishing so we can get cheaper at the position while continuing to build around the position.

I have agreed this doesn't appear to be the year to draft his replacement but if other teams are going nuts trying to find their guy and are willing to spend big, perhaps we should at least consider giving up # 11 for more picks. Especially considering our recent #1 results. (HUGE factor here)

Cool man, i mean if someone wanted to trade with us and we were able to still get someone like say Bush i would be all for this. I just think we have plenty of picks and if anything i would rather trade some of our mid rounders to trade up and get the quality player we want. I don't think we are that far away once we take care of Linebacker and RT...

[XenoMorph]

(03-28-2019, 04:17 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I have agreed this doesn't appear to be the year to draft his replacement but if other teams are going nuts trying to find their guy and are willing to spend big, perhaps we should at least consider giving up # 11 for more picks. Especially considering our recent #1 results. (HUGE factor here)

I see great value in an extra day 2 pick...    depends on whos sitting there at 11 though an what the offer is.

Heck even if we don't get an extra draft pick moving back a few spots is how we acquired glenn from the bills... something like that would work again

[Whatever]

(03-28-2019, 03:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true which is why we need to take White or Bush early this year, just the way it is.

Marv and Haslett put us in this situation.


Nah, we need a RT and a Linebacker early. This is not a great draft for QB's either. Need to wait a year or two depending how much better Dalton is this season. I am predicting a monster year for him if the RT position is addressed properly. I know that Dalton hasn't been a great QB but he still isn't the problem with this team.

I disagree.  Oftentimes, reaching based on perceived need just doesn't work out.  Billy Price last year is a prime example.  We reached for him because we needed an immediate starter at C.  Now, in the long term, I think he will develop into a decent starter, but in the short term we would have been better off just starting Hopkins.  That was one of those panic "the season is lost if we don't take a C in 1" picks and the scrub already on the roster was a better option.  Price was banged up, but relatively minor injuries can set rookies way behind.

I would be ok with White because he is a first round talent and you have to allow a little bit of reach for weak areas of your roster, but Bush isn't a 1st round talent imo.  I'm not paying Cadillac sticker prices for a Chevy Cruze and I'm not going anywhere near Bush at 11.

[yang]

(03-28-2019, 01:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Will the Bengals really go with a LBer in the 1st round of the draft ?

Here's the history of LBers drafted under MB thru the top 3 rounds:

Round 1

1998 - T. Spikes 1-13 B. Simmons 1-17
2005 - D. Pollack 1-17 *
2008 - K. Rivers 1-9 *

Round 2

2005 - O. Thurman 2-16*
2009 - R. Maualuga*

Round 3

1993 S. Tovar 3-59
1998 S. Foley 3-75
2004 C. Miller 3-80 L. Johnson 3-96*
2011 D. Moch 3-66*
2015 P. Dawson 3-99*
2016 N. Vigil 3-87*
2018 M. Jefferson 3-78*

* = under ML

With our GM now for 28 seasons we've drafted four 1st rounders. The first two, Spikes and Simmons were two of the better LBers we've drafted under Mike. Pollack may well have been great one but had his career cut short with a broken vertebrae in his neck. Rivers had a couple decent seasons then had his jaw broken by Whines Hard and never recovered.

Our two second rounders Thurman and Maualuga. Thurman looked like a superstar in the making but couldn't get his life away from football together and fizzled out quickly. Maualuga had a decent career but was a giant liability in coverage.

Our 3rd rounders under Marvin have had little success. Caleb Miller fizzled out, Johnson had some success. Moch and Dawson both had short NFL careers. Vigil has shown a bit of promise and Jefferson is a giant question mark.

So really the only LBers drafted by MB with any longterm success were Spikes, Simmons, and Tovar all pre Marvin. And Maualuga under Marvin.

Isn't it time we broke this chain of draft failures at LBer and get a great LBer in the 1st round ? I'd love to be able to watch a Bengals game without us getting torched up the middle by TE's, crossing routes, and RB's.

Man we really suck at drafting linebackers.  OUCH!!

seriously the only above average linebacker was Takeo Spikes. Pollack was a rush defensive end. Simmons was okay. Thurman a crackhead. And it goes down from there.... ugh.

[*psychdoctor*]

I will be somewhat nervous on draft day. I think it is important for Taylor to hit several solid picks for the Bengals to have a chance to turn things around. I have no ideal who they are targeting. They may target White but Oliver would be hard to pass up. I still think TE is in play.

I fear they may select a QB which I understand but man, that would mean the season is in rebuild mode. They need two backers even with the Brown signing and they need probably two OT. I do not think they go CB at 11.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-28-2019, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I disagree.  Oftentimes, reaching based on perceived need just doesn't work out.  Billy Price last year is a prime example.  We reached for him because we needed an immediate starter at C.  Now, in the long term, I think he will develop into a decent starter, but in the short term we would have been better off just starting Hopkins.  That was one of those panic "the season is lost if we don't take a C in 1" picks and the scrub already on the roster was a better option.  Price was banged up, but relatively minor injuries can set rookies way behind.

I would be ok with White because he is a first round talent and you have to allow a little bit of reach for weak areas of your roster, but Bush isn't a 1st round talent imo.  I'm not paying Cadillac sticker prices for a Chevy Cruze and I'm not going anywhere near Bush at 11.

If you wanted Hopkins over Price at that time i don't know what to say to you. It was the right pick even if Price got injured and didn't play the way everyone expected him to. He still has great upside and i know he will be much better than Hopkins. We needed a Center and we got one finally, he should be the answer down the road.

Disagree on Bush not being a 1st round talent as well. If White isn't there i would trade back and take him in the first no prob. If we ignore Linebacker early after only re-signing Preston in FA we will regret it. Tem has only so much talent to work with and this was by far the biggest weakness on this team last year.

We can get a decent RT in the 2nd round like Risner.

[NKURyan]

It's too early to tell because it depends on how things will shake out, but I definitely think they want to.

If White is gone and Bush is sitting there, I don't think you can risk trading back and hoping to get him.

Someone expected to go much higher will slip out of the top 10 because someone always does. You'd definitely have to at least consider them.

[PlayadLc]

I’m still going Oline in the 1st.

[lone bengal]

We desperately need linebackers but I don't wanna draft one if he's not worthy of the 11th pick . We should be able to find a pretty good player at that spot. Considering were a team that builds through the draft and that we have recently missed on some early picks that has set the franchise back I would be ok with going best player available versus reaching for a need. Best player available tends to work it self out, get play makers and guys that impact the game. Drafting guys like Ogbuehi and Fisher killed us and with the jury still out on Ross and prematurely on Price we can't afford to miss on this pick.

[THE PISTONS]

I'm thinking that we can make a list like White, OT, etc...but I think the Bengals are going to absolutely shock us with their 1st Round pick.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-28-2019, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I disagree.  Oftentimes, reaching based on perceived need just doesn't work out.  Billy Price last year is a prime example.  We reached for him because we needed an immediate starter at C.  Now, in the long term, I think he will develop into a decent starter, but in the short term we would have been better off just starting Hopkins.  That was one of those panic "the season is lost if we don't take a C in 1" picks and the scrub already on the roster was a better option.  Price was banged up, but relatively minor injuries can set rookies way behind.

I would be ok with White because he is a first round talent and you have to allow a little bit of reach for weak areas of your roster, but Bush isn't a 1st round talent imo.  I'm not paying Cadillac sticker prices for a Chevy Cruze and I'm not going anywhere near Bush at 11.

Well there goes your draft cred, Bush is easily a first round linebacker and wouldn’t surprise me if he goes top 10. 511 235 lbs , ran a 4.4 40 faster than most of our defensive backs n as fluid as hell , and his vertical of 40.5 inches was insane. What more do you want from physical Stand point. And he was their team leader and was also great in coverage posting a 79 passer rating against.

[*Synric*]

I think it will be hard to pass up on potential game changers like Ed Oliver, Montez Sweat, and to a lesser degree Brian Burns.

[Whatever]

(03-28-2019, 07:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If you wanted Hopkins over Price at that time i don't know what to say to you. It was the right pick even if Price got injured and didn't play the way everyone expected him to. He still has great upside and i know he will be much better than Hopkins. We needed a Center and we got one finally, he should be the answer down the road.

Disagree on Bush not being a 1st round talent as well. If White isn't there i would trade back and take him in the first no prob. If we ignore Linebacker early after only re-signing Preston in FA we will regret it. Tem has only so much talent to work with and this was by far the biggest weakness on this team last year.

We can get a decent RT in the 2nd round like Risner.

Price should develop into a better C than Hopkins with time.  However, he was already injured when he was drafted and it was a stretch to think he was going to come in play at a high level.  In time, hopefully the pick pays off.  However, the point is that we as fans often overestimate what rookie draft picks are going to do and underestimate what guys that have been in the league a few years can do.

Yeah, I totally disagree on Bush.  In three years in college, he generated one turnover and has only 10 more solo tackles than assisted tackles.  He's a good blitzer, but that's really the only thing that stands out on tape.

[Whatever]

(03-29-2019, 12:13 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Well there goes your draft cred, Bush is easily a first round linebacker and wouldn’t surprise me if he goes top 10.  511 235 lbs , ran a 4.4 40 faster than most of our defensive backs n as fluid as hell , and his vertical of 40.5 inches was insane.  What more do you want from physical Stand point.  And he was their team leader and was also great in coverage posting a 79 passer rating against.

At 5'11" he's going to have a tough time matching up with NFL TE's.  He's undersized as a LB.  He gets fooled easily by ball fakes, makes bad reads, and takes bad angles which nullifies a lot of that speed.  He has issues making open field tackles, which he will especially need to do if you play him at WLB.  He doesn't get off blocks.  He generated one turnover in 3 years of college ball.  He disappeared in games.  Only 10 more solo tackles than assisted tackles.  Basically, he's undersized and a better athlete than he is a football player.

[Joelist]

I'm not worried about Price yet. He missed preseason time with injury recovery and yes he had one badly blown block early in the Colts game. But for the rest of that game he looked good. Then he was looking good against the Rats but got hurt early in the game and missed that game and the next 5 - not good for a rookie trying to learn the most complex position on the offensive line.

As to this year I really do hope we go LB in Round 1 and OT in Round 2. I would even consider trading up to ensure we get the player we need.

[J24]

There are a couple of sleepers at LB that you can get later in the drafts.

[JWW1971]

This years draft is wide open with the new coaching staff, I would really like us to get Oliver at 11 but think we will take a LB but again only in White or Bush are there.
Sweat also looks like a game changer but there might be a chance all 4 might be off the table at 11.
After that we must get the O-Line fixed

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-28-2019, 10:39 PM)NKURyan Wrote: It's too early to tell because it depends on how things will shake out, but I definitely think they want to.

If White is gone and Bush is sitting there, I don't think you can risk trading back and hoping to get him.

Someone expected to go much higher will slip out of the top 10 because someone always does. You'd definitely have to at least consider them.

Yep,

There's almost always a surprise pick about #8 or so that nobody had going top 10. Then there's always some surprise team trading up to get a QB that nobody had after a QB. I'll be pretty surprised if Haskins and Murray don't both go top 10, perhaps even top 5 ? So it's just really hard to say who's gonna still be there at 11 ?

If White's there and all the top guys are gone I hope we take him. Like I say I'm pretty tired of watching our D get shredded over the middle !