Think Katie is calling the shots?

[THE PISTONS]

So when we do something good, people are like Katie is calling the shots. Then a bad move and it's: MB is STILL in charge.

It's not that simple. It seems it will be Katie AND Troy running the team after. It seems Katie doesn't crave attention (which I feel is a great quality in an owner.)

She was there too during the interview but she's always preferred to be in the background. And her husband is vice president of the team. It's going to be their team, not just hers. https://t.co/VXlV92RaBZ

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) March 29, 2019

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As I posted in another thread, the Bengals seem to use a group of people to make decisions now: MB, Katie, Troy, Duke, and ZT. Having 5 people makes it tough though because ultimately someone needs to make the call.

Could this work out? We will see, but so far I've been vastly underwhelmed by moves and have yet to see that big sweeping change that we expected a new coaching staff to usher in.

I guess the draft will show if their strategy has changed also.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Merv always said he talked to Mikey every day, maybe it was just the two of them, maybe more as time went on.

Regardless, over the past years did they talk every day about how shitty the OL and LB's were? If you are going to talk football, then you would talk about this. Someone in the room would say 'We lost Whit and Zetler but Og and Fisher are at best backups'; daily discussion, daily updates so Tory blabbing on like they had no choice but to sign Hart simply does not address the issue. And that issue is still there. This team has not been able to draft LB's or OL - what have they done to correct this? Other than Mikey probably saying they have had some 'bad luck' in these areas.

[THE PISTONS]

I think it leads to a big case of groupthink. They may think that they present diverse ideas, but anytime you get the same people discussing the same things over and over again...groupthink kicks in.

[Benton]

From little things said here and there, it's sounded like a group mind for a while. I think Brown and whoever the HC are end up speaking for the group, but I think they run it like a family business, with a small handful of people coming to consensus on the big decisions.

I think that's why it took so long so get Marvin out. He was considered part of that small group. It wasn't like firing a mediocre head coach, it was firing part of their management team.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 05:45 PM)Benton Wrote: From little things said here and there, it's sounded like a group mind for a while. I think Brown and whoever the HC are end up speaking for the group, but I think they run it like a family business, with a small handful of people coming to consensus on the big decisions.

I think that's why it took so long so get Marvin out. He was considered part of that small group. It wasn't like firing a mediocre head coach, it was firing part of their  management team.

'We're going to take a secret ballot vote to determine if Marvin Lewis stays or goes as coach. We need 5 votes to fire him.'

I do agree with your assessment and it's what I think too. And losing Marvin from that group could explain why they've struggled at times this year like hiring a DC and some of the other moves.

[BengalsRocker]

It just kills me when people try to defend this Mike & this group that runs the Bengals.

They are and have always been the laughing stock of the NFL.

This isn't just fans ragging on their own team.

It's common logic and spread across media in all platforms.

They always wait until the ship is sinking and not fix the leak when it's foreseen.

Backwards, Just plain backwards and stubborn.

It looks as if that model that Mike Brown has clung to and won nothing just keeps chugging along.

I hope to hell they prove me wrong going forward, but at the moment I'm at my end with this crap.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 05:51 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: It just kills me when people try to defend this Mike & this group that runs the Bengals.

They are and have always been the laughing stock of the NFL.

This isn't just fans ragging on their own team.

It's common logic and spread across media in all platforms.

They always wait until the ship is sinking and not fix the leak when it's foreseen.

Backwards,  Just plain backwards and stubborn.  

It looks as if that model that Mike Brown has clung to and won nothing just keeps chugging along.

I hope to hell they prove me wrong going forward, but at the moment I'm at my end with this crap.

Even making the playoffs allows people to defend them. When we actually do win a playoff game, people will be having a parade to MB!

[BengalsRocker]

(03-30-2019, 05:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Even making the playoffs allows people to defend them. When we actually do win a playoff game, people will be having a parade to MB!

I mean our best shot at a actual playoff win was with a backup QB who barely sticks around the NFL.

This team was never really poised to make a Super Bowl appearance whether due to injuries, bad play, or coaching.

It was cool to see them get a chance to "participate" in playoff football.

Not something really to hang your hat proudly on like some fans and this team does.

[Benton]

(03-30-2019, 05:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 'We're going to take a secret ballot vote to determine if Marvin Lewis stays or goes as coach. We need 5 votes to fire him.'

I do agree with your assessment and it's what I think too. And losing Marvin from that group could explain why they've struggled at times this year like hiring a DC and some of the other moves.

To the bold, agreed. I think it's 4-7 people, so imagine any company losing 1/4 to 1/7 of its leadership. For future decisions (like hiring coordinators) it would likely cause some of the remaining guys to go "uh, I usually just asked Marvin."


It's a little different from the Pats or Cowboys or other organizations where an owner or a GM has a handful of people supplying data, but one guy ultimately makes the final decisions.

[ezekiel23]

To answer your question,No,I don’t think Katie is calling the shots.It’s Mike Brown calling the shots,always has been and always will be.That is,as long as he’s able.Whenever something happens that just totally doesn’t make sense,look no further than Mike Brown.Unfortunate.

[Beaker]

(03-30-2019, 07:27 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Whenever something happens that just totally doesn’t make sense,look no further than Mike Brown.

So who do we look to and praise when they do something that does make sense like hiring a whole new coaching staff and consistently keeping us out of salary cap hell?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 06:26 PM)Benton Wrote: To the bold, agreed. I think it's 4-7 people, so imagine any company losing 1/4 to 1/7 of its leadership. For future decisions (like hiring coordinators) it would likely cause some of the remaining guys to go "uh, I usually just asked Marvin."


It's a little different from the Pats or Cowboys or other organizations where an owner or a GM has a handful of people supplying data, but one guy ultimately makes the final decisions.

I think one major issue is MB, Katie, Troy, and even Tobin have all spent their entire Management career with the Bengals. I believe that Tobins dad worked here too.

They haven't been in other organizations to learn how things are done so they could emulate some of the processes that are known to work.

That's what Marvin brought to the table when they hired him.

As far as ZT and his staff? A lot of them seem so green though I doubt they have observed a lot that works other places.

[ezekiel23]

(03-30-2019, 07:37 PM)Beaker Wrote: So who do we look to and praise when they do something that does make sense like hiring a whole new coaching staff and consistently keeping us out of salary cap hell?

Well now,could it be that maybe Mikey boy just wasn’t his usual self that day ???

[*Synric*]

Isnt this the exact same thread as this one?

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Who-s-Calling-the-Shots-for-the-Bengals-Hint-It-s-a-5-headed-Monster?page=2

One thread does answer the other and they were only started like 2 days apart.

[Starvin Marvin]

(03-30-2019, 05:51 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: It just kills me when people try to defend this Mike & this group that runs the Bengals.

They are and have always been the laughing stock of the NFL.

This isn't just fans ragging on their own team.

It's common logic and spread across media in all platforms.

They always wait until the ship is sinking and not fix the leak when it's foreseen.

Backwards,  Just plain backwards and stubborn.  

It looks as if that model that Mike Brown has clung to and won nothing just keeps chugging along.

I hope to hell they prove me wrong going forward, but at the moment I'm at my end with this crap.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote but it got me to thinking about what things were like when PB was still running the show. I didn't do any real research but I don't recall Paul being aggressive in filling roster holes either. Of course, he didn't have to deal with things like salary caps or unrestricted free agency for the majority of his time as the head of the organization. What Mike learned from his dad was free agents were irrelevant and today we see it as stubbornness. Add to this the refusal to hire a real dyed-in-the-wool GM and we're left with what we have today. An ownership group with no real talent vis-a-vis using free agency or identifying talent both on the roster or available through free agency.

This is my working theory at any rate and likely full of holes but I'd be interested in other folk's thoughts on why this team seem to continuously flounders as a middle of the road franchise in an era where worst-to-first parity is available to teams willing to go all-in for success.

[2MinutesHate]

I believe that the Bengals prefer to give the illusion that decisions are made by multiple people.  That way, when the fans start to complain, the blame cannot be specifically pinned on any one person.  The Bobby Hart signing stunk to high heaven of Mike Brown.  Of course, when Troy was questioned, he became defensive as if he had to defend the decision where he never the word "I" anywhere.  More than likely he's defending yet another blunder by Mike Brown, which I believe is expected by the man himself.

Notice how Mike Brown never comes out and says, "I give the green/red light on all player personnel decisions."?  
Why?  He has to know he has bungled his way through the last 27 years, never giving us a winner, but he just can't let go.  So he creates an air of confusion when its time to place blame.  The man is 83 years old.  He hasn't given any indication he's getting too old and/or giving up.  If Katie and Troy don't hire a GM after the old man dies, they truly have learned nothing from their time sitting on the sidelines.

There should be some sort of accountability. Creating a perception of decisions being made by a 5 headed monster is much like spraying Febreeze in a room full of dogshit, while not punishing the offender when one of them craps on the floor.

Just wait until the draft.  We will all see once again.  
Maybe Merv will get him on the horn to guide him through the darkness?  

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 07:37 PM)Beaker Wrote: So who do we look to and praise when they do something that does make sense like hiring a whole new coaching staff and consistently keeping us out of salary cap hell?

Is changing coaches a great decision? It was obvious to basically everyone that follows football that Marvin needed to go. It's debateable whether Marvin actually wanted to return.

Every franchise but the Bengals changes HC's every 3-4-5 years without a playoff win. Here the coach got 15 years and 7 cracks at winning a playoff game. Then after that 7th loss, he got 3 more years.

It was so obvious that he needed to go that fans would have likely accepted ANY new HC other than Hue Jackson. The fact that Hue Jackson got hired back to the Bengals and was seriously considered for the HC job after his historically terrible stint in Cleveland says another thing also about management.

The ability of this team to tolerate mediocrity is one thing. The ability of some of the homers on this board to praise it is another.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 07:37 PM)Beaker Wrote: So who do we look to and praise when they do something that does make sense like hiring a whole new coaching staff and consistently keeping us out of salary cap hell?

Have they really kept us out of 'cap hell'?

Teams like the Steelers and Ravens performance doesn't really seem to suffer from salary cap ramifications. Plus, they have Super Bowl wins on their resume.

But, are the Bengals really out of cap hell? We let guys like Whitworth walk and replaced him with Ced, Fisher, and now Bobby Hart.

We lost Reggie Nelson, Sanu, Jones, Zeitler, Joseph, Justin Smith, Spikes, Peko, Leon Hall, and some other players. In many cases replacing them with inferior players initially.

The poor results of the past 3 years are largely based on losing those guys and not replacing them.

So did we really avoid 'cap hell' as teams in 'cap hell' generally have to get rid of higher priced players and miss the playoffs. We ended up the same place.

[Atomic Orange]

Was hoping Katie was going to be more like Paul and was just sitting in the background out of respect for her father but as time passes and after that Troy interview - AND the "questionable" FA re-ups, my faith has greatly eroded. Now i am getting strong Mike 2.0 vibes.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-31-2019, 11:26 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Was hoping Katie was going to be more like Paul and was just sitting in the background out of respect for her father but as time passes and after that Troy interview - AND the "questionable" FA re-ups, my faith has greatly eroded. Now i am getting strong Mike 2.0 vibes.

The disappointing thing to me is it seems like ZT is just going with the flow on things. I was hoping to see more creativity in personnel.

Usually a HC comes in and brings some guys from their former team in.

I did hear that they liked Kwon Alexander...just not at the price he signed for. Can't really blame them on that.