Lance McAllisters valid questions

[Cure4CF]

(09-15-2015, 11:34 PM)orangeandblackblood Wrote: Seriously though, why not orange?

I would be satisfied w/ a Super Bowl win.  I also think all the rest would help us get there.   Including Mr. Mikey's lucky socks!

[BengalChris]

(09-15-2015, 07:27 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: In my opinion this was a well thought out piece written by Lance McAlister of 700 wlw about the Cincinnati Bengals  fan base. What was interesting to me is the different markets he has been in and covered, yet he claims this one is a bit different.

I guess the question is why? Why exactly do you (or I) react the way we do? Why can't we just enjoy what we have and save the "anger and venom" for if and when we are bounced from super bowl contention?

Just so everyone knows, I am not personally pointing my finger at you or anyone else. I just thought I would share what I thought was an interesting take on our fanbase.  


http://www.700wlw.com/onair/lance-mcalister-7818/question-of-the-day-whats-up-13945683/

I don't find that Bengals fans are divided on the Bengals success as this guy says. I don't see that at all.

Instead, what I see is a fan base longing for a winning team that matches or exceeds the success of the previous boss, Paul Brown. Sure Bengals fans might not agree on how best to achieve this success, but all want to see it.

It really has nothing to do with Andy Dalton or even Marvin Lewis. It goes back much further than that. It goes back to before Andy was even in high school.

It goes back to 1991 when Mikey B took over the team and turned it into the laughingstock of all of professional sport the world over. Take the worst run franchise of today and the Bengals of the 90s would have been worse by an order of magnitude.

Even though Mikey B has changed his ways and some success has been realized, the team still embarrasses itself on national TV and in the playoffs. It gets a Monday night game against last year's weakest team in the preseason and the team lays an egg showing little effort at all.

We all hope they do well. Some believe Dalton can take the team to the promised land, others aren't so sure and a few have given up on him completely. But that's more on Dalton and Lewis. 0-4 in the playoffs doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Go back to the Bills run of 4 straight SBs. Did anyone actually expect them to win a SB the year after that 4th consecutive loss? Not really. In fact, we were all tired of seeing them in the big game and wanted someone else to represent the AFC.

[McC]

(09-15-2015, 11:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How exactly is predicting a losing season and calling for the coach and QB to be replaced equal to "supporting" a team. 

What the hell are you talking about?

[kramer1]

No playoff wins since before the majority of the paying fan base had junk hairs. How about that, Lance? Lance is an idiot.

[magikod]

(09-15-2015, 07:43 PM)Thefinalcut813 Wrote: As Ricky Bobby would say.
"If you're not first you're last."

[CJD]

I'm sure it has something to do with being the franchise currently in the middle of the fifth longest playoff win drought in NFL history, and the longest active playoff win drought in the NFL today.

That said, I am enjoying how good the Bengals seem to be.

I am not as big a detractor of Dalton as some, but I am always waiting for his next big melt down, which always seems to come at the worst possible time.

I am not as big a detractor of Lewis as some, but I do wish he would become the GM and allow a coach who can coach during a game to take over.

I am not as big a detractor of Brown as some, but for a long time I was looking forward to him officially handing the franchise over to Katie. Although in the last few seasons, it looks like he has stopped choking the franchise like he did in the 90s, for which credit probably belongs to Lewis.

Do we complain a lot? I suppose. Don't all football fans complain? It is our bread and butter. But that doesn't mean we don't celebrate our team's success. It just means we are celebrating, but always waiting for the inevitable downfall, as we have been conditioned to by the 24 years of failure to which we have been subjected.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-15-2015, 07:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wasn't Ricky Bobby a total moron?

Yeah, but he made that grace his *****

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-15-2015, 07:52 PM)McC Wrote: I think the world should shut the hell up and leave Bengals fans alone, including Bengal fans who attack other Bengal fans in some kind of pissing contest over who has the biggest fanhood.   Only a lifelong Clippers fan has proven more devotion than Bengals fans.  We Don't owe shit to anybody.

There used to be a concept.  It was called live and let live.  Apparently, that went by the wayside.  Now, lotsa people want to tell everyone how to think or react to anything and everything.  

"You're not being the right kind of fan.  You're doing it wrong because you're not doing it my way."

My vote for "Post of the Year"

[djs7685]

98% of the fanbase could be completely realistic in their expectations and attitude towards the team (I know the number is much smaller in reality, it's just an example), but the 2% will look like the majority if those are the only people you're hearing. Do you really think anyone involved in the media is reading these boards on a regular basis and making their conclusions based on a message board of mostly down to earth people? Not a chance! They hear the morons that scream the loudest, and those morons usually come in the form of hanging bed sheets on bridges, spending their day Tweeting horrible things about our players/coaches, and generally not knowing much about the game of football to begin with. Those are the people that represent 100% of fanbases because they're always the most noticeable and they put themselves out there to be seen.

There are thousands of realistic Bengals fans, but the fanbase doesn't get painted in that manner because the hundreds are louder. All it takes is one idiot on Twitter to send an all caps message to someone in the media about how Andy sucks and the team is going to lose every game because we suck, and that becomes "what Bengals fans think", instead of "what some moronic Bengals fan on Twitter thinks".

[Hoofhearted]

(09-15-2015, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually he mentioned that he had worked in the sports industry in many other cities.  He isn't asking why Bengal fans are not like him.  He is asking why they are not like any other city where he has worked.

Not surprised that this hit a nerve with you, though.

I am curious how he can come to this conclusion. By the few thousand fans that email or tweet him?  

So because a few way to emotional fans  trolls tweeted him those ridiculous tweets they represent the entire fanbase? Because logic, right? 

You would think in his line of business he should know not to take things so serious. I mean we just had a thread about trolling the opposing teams board, so what's to say those aren't the similar types of fans doing that now? 

[PDub80]

- I have no problems with Lance's article. It doesn't represent how I feel about the team but, then again, he has to hear some pretty idiotic callers and get some asinine emails that probably get under his skin.

- Anyone heavily criticizing this FO over the past few years hasn't been paying attention or is predisposed to being negative towards Mike Brown/the FO. Mike Brown has not actively hurt the Bengals from the FO since Carson left. They are now a first class organization. Lance has some really valid points concerning this in his article. I have never been more proud to be a Bengals fan than I am right now. And it is a feeling that keeps building. The future is bright with the way this teams runs things.

- Yes, Andy Dalton killed a great team with his playoff performance in 2013. No, that doesn't mean his 2015 season will be exactly the same. To harp on that at this point in the new season and after he played a great game is not making much sense. I still worry that he's inconsistent, but how else is he going to show consistency other than to go play? He's the guy for now... off-season's over, let's root for the entire team to succeed and that includes AD..... Unless he gets hurt because I am sooooo team McCarron.

- I COMPLETELY disagree with Lance's "Reds fan" mindset on just being happy with a winning team and not being critical or demanding more.

Lance is a Reds shill who continues to homer and stump for that organization ad nauseam. If they were a .500 club he considers that an awesome season and would staunchly be on a soap box for them - chastising people for not buying tickets. THAT'S where his head at and his happiness as a fan (and, really - the Reds paid propagandist) resides. He still gets a hard on for the Big Red Machine, Barry Larkin, and the 1991 Nasty Boys. If even someone like Pokey Reese called his show Lance would stop the presses and give him the floor for the duration. He would be like Vader greeting the Emperor when he landed on the DeathStar in Return of the Jedi. LOOK, the scene is even in Reds colors.......





As a hard core Reds/MLB fan, he has latched on to and learned to appreciate things differently than a NFL fan does. That doesn't have to mean he can't have good points, ideas, or takes on stuff. He often does.

- This core group of players has had 5 off-seasons (some more) to put it together. I would say that's (roughly) the MLB equivalent of a decade when you look at when guys are drafted into the minor league system and are expected to come up and be productive enough to put together a consistent winner/World Series challenger. It is time for this Bengals team to perform to the highest level - not just to win a playoff game, but the whole thing. Anything less is a failure. This is the NFL, not MLB where the Reds are still trying to figure out how the Cardinals do it. The Reds and their fans are just happy to ride the lead dog's coat tails into a playoff series just to watch them get FREAKING NO HIT and out in the first round.

Lance is a Reds fan first, second, and third. He covers the Bengals because he has to and really couldn't give a rip. His mentality is different because of his personal affection for baseball and his understanding of how that sport works. If the Reds were .500 this year he would be Mr. positive and all thumbs up. That doesn't fly with NFL fans because the NFL is structured different and the expectation to turn it around quickly and contend is legitimate one.

[Luvnit2]

(09-15-2015, 10:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To me, it's all about progress. If we went 3-13 last year, I'd be satisfied with 7-9 this year. If we went 7-9, I'd be satisfied with reaching the playoffs. If we make the playoffs and lose, I want to see them reach again and win this time.

I can be one of the more optimistic guys on here (I predicted we'd hang 27 on the Raiders when many were predicting 13-14 points), but I realize that this team has been historically bad in postseason and I get why many are frustrated.

If it doesn't bother you at all, more power to ya, but don't act as if people who express frustration are being ridiculous. The reasons for frustration are perfectly understandable.

Everyone has the right to their opinion. The Bengal's playoff losses are frustrating, but the AD and AJ era we have 4 playoff losses. We were underdogs and on the road in 3 of them and favored at home in one of them. I can separate the 4 losses and not lump them into one, others can't.

I think it comes down to respect. I feel our team has earned respect by doing something few others can do, get to the playoffs 4 years in a row. They got there in 2011 coming off a 4-12 season with a rookie QB and rookie #1 WR so they most likely over achieved. The same for 2012, most experts predicted they were not talented enough to make it back to the playoffs.

Would fans be happier if we had missed the playoffs in 2011 and 2012?

I have no issue with nay frustration, but this group of players, coaches and the FO has earned my respect. Thus, I treat them with respect and choose not to trash them daily or project their demise in training camp.

[YoungThundercat]

(09-15-2015, 07:43 PM)Thefinalcut813 Wrote: As Ricky Bobby would say.
"If you're not first you're last."

Actually, Ricky Bobby's dad said that. And, damn it son, he was high as hell when he said that. You can be 2nd place, 3rd place, hell, even 4th place.

[masonbengals fan]

(09-15-2015, 11:07 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: You ask the million dollar question...and you are correct that if you are able to enjoy the season in a vacuum (which would probably be much more fun) nothing that has happened before should matter. 

You may have defined the two sides of the fence. 

One side that are able to put the past in the rear view mirror and say "I am going to enjoy this ride as long as it last and to hell with the past"
vs.
The other side that says  "I have seen this show before and I want something different" maybe if I voice my opinion the football gods will hear my pleas and answer my prayer. 

Neither side is completely right or completely wrong. It is how the individual decides to enjoy the sport. 

I appreciate the back and forth with you as it made me laugh at myself a bit. I am off to pray to the football gods so I bid you a good night!

I believe you nailed it. As for me I'm on the enjoy the ride side of that fence. If I hadn't been able to hit the re-set button I would have lost all hope years ago and just quit watching. Yes, there are several games that I will always remember & think what if but overall the last 4 years have been a lot of fun. Certainly much better than the previous decade.

[BritishBengal]

I can't understand why everyone is overlooking the simple explanation here, the financial impact of supporting a team.

I sit here on my laptop in England, so obviously can't comment on the local issues and sentiments in Cincinnati, but I understand why this fanbase has mixed feelings towards the Bengals, I see the same thing in the English football (soccer) leagues.

The cost of following a sports team has sky rocketed. Back when ticket prices were low and merchandising affordable, supporting a team was a light hearted hobby. As a kid I used to go to see my local football (soccer) team all the time. It cost me almost nothing to get into the ground up until the age of 16. My local team, was then and remains to the this day a small, rather unsuccessful club. When they used to lose badly, it wasn't great, but it didn't matter, id spent very little, I got over it. Fast forward to 2015, that same unsuccessful club now charges far more for tickets.

The minute as a fan you start to have to question the money spent in supporting a team, there is an issue. I am assuming it is more than easy to spend well over $1,000 during the course of an NFL season. When such large percentages of wages are invested in watching sports everything becomes more serious. It turns from a 'oh well' attitude, to 'What the F**k'. The last time the Bengals won a playoff game I wasn't born, next year I turn 25. When a team hasn't even gone over the first rung of playoffs in almost a quarter of a century, the fanbase is going to be pretty unhappy, quite rightly so.

[Wes Mantooth]

I can't really explain the mindset of a Bengals fan. But I can tell you that I threw my Grandpa Chips war medals off a bridge. I'm also typing this in my pee pants.

[Wes Mantooth]

Man, Lance is annoying. I caught some of his show last night and I have quite a few thoughts:

1.) How many markets have seen a decade like the one we saw in the 90's? It was one of the worst runs not only in the history of the NFL, but in the history of sports. So I think it would be fair to see that we're rather unique in that regard.

2.) How many other NFL fanbases haven't seen a playoff win in 25 years? None, it's the longest drought in the league.

3.) How many professional teams have what's called "The Worst Stadium Deal in Professional Sports? Again, that would be just us. Bonus: A County Commissioner took a job with the team immediately after his term. (Shady/Insult to Injury)

4.) How many teams have give a press conference like we did 2010? Not many.

5.) How many teams don't have a practice facility? Not many.

6.) How many teams retain a coach after 12 years with no postseason success? Few, if any at all.

I could go on and on. None of what was just written above is really meant for actual debate. We've all talked about each one countless times. The actual point of all it, as a whole, is to point out that we're rather unique. That would be fair to say, no?

So an obvious answer or approach to explaining Lance's theory, that we are somewhat different in how we root for our team, is the idea that this team is somewhat different. Different results we'll dictate different levels of support. When you take into account our playoff drought, previous frutility, the relationship with ownership and the city, etc. it's no wonder our fanbase values and supports this team differently.

All that just said, I think Lance is full of shit. He's just looking for a talking point, and being the gigantic homer he is it was easy to drudge up such an obvious us vs them discussion. The fact that some fans are pessimistic, or angry, or jaded, or whatever, is not at all unique to this city. There are different levels of this most likely everywhere, and it's tied to the history of the team and it's fans. Something that I think Lance is deliberately missing.

[OrlandoBengal]

I have experienced fan bases in Tampa, Miami, and Cincinnati. Both Tampa and Miami get upset when their team is losing and/or does not seem to be making forward strides.  They are both pretty similar to Cincy fans in many ways.
Question though... does he not understand the history of the Bengals and southwest Ohio?  The 25 years without a single playoff victory, the decade of absolute futility in a league designed for parity, the horrendous stadium deal, or the complete arrogance that Mike Brown has shown towards all of these?  Because if you know even a tiny bit of the history, it is not difficult to understand.

[tigershrimp]

He questions fans. He questions social media. He questions the coaches, the owner, and even the politics of Cincinnati.

Funny how he doesn't question the local sports journalists....

[XenoMorph]

(09-15-2015, 07:43 PM)Thefinalcut813 Wrote: As Ricky Bobby would say.
"If you're not first you're last."

then there are 31 last placed teams every year most of which arent trying to fire their coaches or replace their QBs