Initial Reactions To New Coaches From A Vet

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2019, 03:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow.  This is a great debate tactic.  Let me try it.


"The players always agree with me whether they say it or not."


Man, that is soooooo easy.  I am going to use it in every argument from now on.

They are saying it, without saying it lol

[*Nately120*]

(05-17-2019, 02:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No shit, big changes going on. Embarassing when some players don't give it their all.

Makes everyone look bad. No excuses for this. So happy Marv is gone and the players are too whether they say it or not.

No offense to Marvin but man, there is no excuse for this, he couldn't motivate a rabbit to jump.

I simply can't find the logic that our defense chose to be historically bad last year as comforting as others, but hey...do it for Lou, I guess.

We want to our culture to be one that holds players accountable, but it is a lot easier to just blame everything on Marvin.  Ok time to hold players accountable starting.......now!

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2019, 10:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We want to our culture to be one that holds players accountable, but it is a lot easier to just blame everything on Marvin.  Ok time to hold players accountable starting.......now!

Problem was Marvin didn’t hold players accountable. Well, except Ross, but that was easy because Ross didn’t learn the playbook well and was injured as well.

[NKURyan]

(05-18-2019, 10:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I simply can't find the logic that our defense chose to be historically bad last year as comforting as others, but hey...do it for Lou, I guess.

We want to our culture to be one that holds players accountable, but it is a lot easier to just blame everything on Marvin.  Ok time to hold players accountable starting.......now!

I don't think they chose to be historically bad, I think a lot of them showed up thinking they could go through the motions and be fine and they were able to get away with it. They were obviously wrong.

I think it's human nature to become complacent after years and years of the same working relationship. Most people who've been at the same job with the same managers for years will settle into a routine, and we rarely keep up the "I need to really impress my peers" attitude you might have when you first start working somewhere or for someone.

I don't think Marvin's a bad coach or anything, I just think sometimes you need a change and it really looked like these guys were in that boat to me.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

This is the year that proves my theory about Marvin. We had the most talented roster in the league during our last playoff loss to the Steelers. Ive always thought of Marvin as a Mark Jackson Jason Kidd kind of coach nba reference. or nfl reference Jeff Fisher Marty Schottenheimer. our playoff appearances were in spite of Marvin not because of Marvin.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-18-2019, 10:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I simply can't find the logic that our defense chose to be historically bad last year as comforting as others, but hey...do it for Lou, I guess.

We want to our culture to be one that holds players accountable, but it is a lot easier to just blame everything on Marvin.  Ok time to hold players accountable starting.......now!

Where did i say that they chose to be historically bad?

All i am saying is there were times last year when the team didn't look properly motivated and looked complacent.

Replacing Marv with a young energetic HC should help.

(05-18-2019, 11:40 AM)NKURyan Wrote: I don't think they chose to be historically bad, I think a lot of them showed up thinking they could go through the motions and be fine and they were able to get away with it. They were obviously wrong.

I think it's human nature to become complacent after years and years of the same working relationship. Most people who've been at the same job with the same managers for years will settle into a routine, and we rarely keep up the "I need to really impress my peers" attitude you might have when you first start working somewhere or for someone.

I don't think Marvin's a bad coach or anything, I just think sometimes you need a change and it really looked like these guys were in that boat to me.

Exactly.

[TSwigZ]

This nice to hear and all but i take away nothing from it lol

[*Nately120*]

Or maybe Mike Brown sucks the life right out of ZT, too.  Is a change at HC enough change?  I guess it's all we will get so let's hope Marvin took the curse with him.  Lord knows the AAF died with him on board. 

[NKURyan]

(05-18-2019, 08:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Or maybe Mike Brown sucks the life right out of ZT, too.  Is a change at HC enough change?  I guess it's all we will get so let's hope Marvin took the curse with him.  Lord knows the AAF died with him on board. 

Maybe Mike Brown didn't have anything to do with Marvin's problems and anybody who keeps the same job for 16 years without postseason success would face the same issues he did? I wouldn't even necessarily say that Marvin had the life sucked out of him - I think he'd love to still be coaching - he just got stale here. If he gets a shot with another team, I'd expect him to have success there... but it wasn't going to come here anymore.

[J24]

I would like to point in that Defense played a lot better under Marvin then they did Austin. Maybe it wasn't a shot at Marvin but Austin.

[fredtoast]

(05-18-2019, 11:25 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Problem was Marvin didn’t hold players accountable. Well, except Ross, but that was easy because Ross didn’t learn the playbook well and was injured as well.

I still don't know exactly what people mean by "holding players accountable".  I watch a lot of NFL games and pretty much every team sticks with their same starting line up every week.  I don't see any teams benching different players from week to week.

Some fans talk about better players setting on the bench, but I just don't see it.  Almost none of these back up go to other teams and become starters.  On the other hand I have seen players who started for the Bengals that fans claim would not be strting for any other team go to other teams and start.

Most of the claims that Marvin does not hold players accountable simply means "He is not playing the guys I like."

And then when Marvin does hold a player accountable half of ther fan base cries about it.

[Bengalitis]

So coaches get paid all that money just to tell them that. I definitely picked the wrong profession.


I can sympathize with Mike Brown.

[bonesaw]

It actually kind of worries me that this is the best thing he could think of to say something positive. I would have preferred something like, "these guys schemes are so smart and are gonna put us in a great position to win games."

[NKURyan]

(05-19-2019, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I still don't know exactly what people mean by "holding players accountable".  I watch a lot of NFL games and pretty much every team sticks with their same starting line up every week.  I don't see any teams benching different players from week to week.

Some fans talk about better players setting on the bench, but I just don't see it.  Almost none of these back up go to other teams and become starters.  On the other hand I have seen players who started for the Bengals that fans claim would not be strting for any other team go to other teams and start.

Most of the claims that Marvin does not hold players accountable simply means "He is not playing the guys I like."

And then when Marvin does hold a player accountable half of ther fan base cries about it.

I'm not saying there are better players behind anybody who is currently penciled in as a starter, but I think Marvin lost the ability to push these guys to consistently play to the best of their abilities game in, game out. As I've said, I don't even chalk that up as a failure on Marvin's part - I think it just naturally happens to everybody.

I guess a decent example would be Carlos Dunlap and (to a lesser extent) Geno Atkins last year. I love both guys, but you do see the knock against them that they disappear at times, or maybe they get a little lazy at times, and that they doesn't always play up to their potential because of that. I think there are ways for coaches to push the buttons of a guy like that in order to get him to play more consistently, but I don't think Marvin ever really tried to do that. Obviously both of those guys need to be starting and playing as much as possible, but I still think you can get more from both of them. 

You saw it with Andy Dalton, too. It's not secret I'm a big Andy supporter, but there's been plenty of times where his play hasn't been up to expectations, too. Did Marvin *ever* say anything critical of Andy? I get that he wants to cover his QB, but I don't think there's any harm in saying something like "Andy needs to make better decisions there" where applicable.

...and that's not even getting into accountability as far as stupid penalties, dirty play, and acting like a moron on the field is concerned.

[NATI BENGALS]

(05-16-2019, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why the hell didn't vigil or any other player say anything about this last year?

This is nothing but generic player speak used to suck up to the new coaches. If grown men need to be told to play hard then they need to be replaced.

Because they were going through the motions just like the complacent leadership.

I disagree. Maybe not all of them but grown men competing at this level could probably use some psychological motivation. Throughout history how many great football teams didnt have a great motivational leader?

We had Dalton whose speeches would be better suited for kindergartens going out to recess. And Marv who probably had a handful of decent leadership moments in all his years here. And a bunch of quiet leaders on D.

This is a violent physical aggressive game. How you can just assume motivation is a given is how stories about busts like Ogbuehi begin.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-20-2019, 12:17 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Because they were going through the motions just like the complacent leadership.

I disagree. Maybe not all of them but grown men competing at this level could probably use some psychological motivation. Throughout history how many great football teams didnt have a great motivational leader?

We had Dalton whose speeches would be better suited for kindergartens going out to recess. And Marv who probably had a handful of decent leadership moments in all his years here. And a bunch of quiet leaders on D.

This is a violent physical aggressive game. How you can just assume motivation is a given is how stories about busts like Ogbuehi begin.

Are you insinuating that Ogbuehi was a bust because the coaches didn't motivate him enough?

[THE PISTONS]

(05-19-2019, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I still don't know exactly what people mean by "holding players accountable".  I watch a lot of NFL games and pretty much every team sticks with their same starting line up every week.  I don't see any teams benching different players from week to week.

Some fans talk about better players setting on the bench, but I just don't see it.  Almost none of these back up go to other teams and become starters.  On the other hand I have seen players who started for the Bengals that fans claim would not be strting for any other team go to other teams and start.

Most of the claims that Marvin does not hold players accountable simply means "He is not playing the guys I like."

And then when Marvin does hold a player accountable half of ther fan base cries about it.

Yep. The whole 'Marvin doesn't hold players accountable narrative' is false. It's the old saying that when a team is losing the backup QB is the most popular guy in town. But, that doesn't mean the backups are better.

People often cite Ross as a guy that was falsely held accountable as a rookie...but I'd cite his play in Year 2 as an example that the coaching staff knew what they were doing. He likely wasn't ready to play Year 1.

The bottom line is coaches put on the field who they think will help the team win. It's simple, they want to win so they can keep their job.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-18-2019, 11:25 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Problem was Marvin didn’t hold players accountable. Well, except Ross, but that was easy because Ross didn’t learn the playbook well and was injured as well.

Which would be a perfect example of holding a guy accountable. Ross underperformed in Year 2. He would have likely been farther behind that level as a rookie.

IF Ross was some 7th Round pick and played like he did in Years 1 and 2...fans would be questioning why he was on the roster.

[fredtoast]

(05-18-2019, 01:43 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: We had the most talented roster in the league during our last playoff loss to the Steelers.

No we didn't.

[grampahol]

(05-20-2019, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No we didn't.

Not even close.. Hello super bowl teams? the 2015 team didn't go to the SB, not that it in and of itself is the only yardstick to measure with, but it has to be in the conversation..