Talk to me about this defense

[THE PISTONS]

(07-29-2019, 06:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe to a degree you can throw out last season. First 7 games or whatever Austin's scheme just sucked ! Whole D had the deer in the headlights look just way to unsure of what to do.

2nd half of season the injuries set in and although they played a bit better the damage was already done.

I look for them to rebound a good bit this season and at least be middle of the pack.

So if the defense couldn't learn Austin's defense which I doubt was totally new...how are they going to learn the new D this year?

[THE PISTONS]

(07-29-2019, 08:47 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I think with Lawson, Vigil, Brown and Glasgow coming back, we will see a difference. Bates will be another year good, Hubbard will be another year good. Hopefully Pratt and Jefferson give us some good play. The players also talk like they are more motivated and love the new coaches and scheme, and that could also be a big difference. Vigil said they dont even talk about effort anymore because its just a given now. Thats a pretty good thing to hear the players saying.

Glasgow was our 2nd best DT in the small sample size he played last year.

[thompson19osu]

Yes Glasgow should be a good contributor. Completely forgot about Hubbard. Maybe this D line will do more than I remember last year.

[kevin]

(07-29-2019, 05:17 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: With training camp here and the season just around the corner, I feel like i hear nothing and know nothing about this defense. Is their any reason to be optimistic for these guys? If there has been any hype around the D I have missed it. I don’t post on here much anymore but I will often peak in. Between the boards and the articles everything is focused on coaching staff, the o-line, and of course now with resigning of Boyd and Green’s injury, focus has shifted to WR core. Can someone shed some light on our LB core and will the rookie we drafted fight for a starting spot? How about our safety situation? For how many points the D gave up last year I feel like there has been no focus on them, which in that case makes me believe we should expect more of the same this year. Your knowledge is appreciated here! Thanks!

It's TOO EARLY for fans to talk O Line or Defense.  Now I put that in caps to highlight, not to yell.   The reason it is too early is you can't hire a new head coach and expect him to have the weakest parts of the team fixed on Day One of Training Camp.  It's not going to happen. We have to give these new coaches their first training camp and preseasons.   We also have to give them the 2019 season into the 2020 season.  The coaches we have now should be considered the coaches for 2020 also, unless Coach Taylor wants to change a coach. This is because you can not expect a new coach to fix a last place team overnight.  In college or pros you have to give a new coach years to recruit or draft players to fit his system. 

The Bengals were so bad on defense that they are on their 4th defensive coordinator in 3 years.  2 Training camps ago we had one DC.  Then last training camp another.  Then Marvin became DC in mid season as it got so bad that Hue Stinks Jackson was fired in Cleveland and brought back to Cincy so Marvin could focus on D.  This training camp all those coaches gone and a new DC.  

The Bengals so bad on O Line that this is their 3rd O Line coach in 3 years.  

The 2 go together.  The Best Defense is a Good Offense.  You control the clock.  You control the field position.  You don't put the D right back on the field with the other team in scoring position.  You don't leave your D on the field all game.  and you score points. You don't score 10 or 14 points and expect your D to shut the other team out.  In todays NFL, a team needs to score 30 points.  The rule changes make it more like touch football.  Teams are putting up points, maybe not the Bengals, but most teams.  You are going to see few 14 to 10 games. 

You can only have a good Offense if you have a Good Offensive Line.  If you have blocking you can win.  If you don't have blocking you can throw the entire playbook in the garbage can.   A Good O Line not only helps the Offense, but it helps the Defense, for reasons I've already mentioned on clock time and field position and the scoreboard.  

I could say I think the team will be better with Burfict who almost never played and so was not a leader. Also the Refs won't be ready to flag Burfict Bengals on every play, he's not on the team.  I could also say I think the D will be good again in 2019, but I have nothing to base that on.   All we can do is wait and see. 

I will add the Patriots D the last few years has started awful and finished great, but the Patriots D got better as Gronk and Edleman and Offensive players got healthy.  The 2 go together.  I would say our D could use some help from the Offense and our Offense could use some help from our D.   We also need good Special Teams.  

This I will say as a fact.  Anybody saying the Bengals D or team will be good or bad in 2019 is just talking out their rear end.  I go back to The Paul Brown Show with Phil Samp back around 1971 or 1972 in Training Camp.  Coach Brown said, "  This is the time of year all these magazines come out and tell you where every team is going to finish.   It makes you wonder why we should even play the NFL season.  Except every year these so called experts are always wrong at the end of the year, and teams don't finish as they predicted in early summer.  So I think we will just go ahead and play the season anyway ". 

[Catmandude123]

(07-29-2019, 09:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: McVay got Wade Phillips, ZT gets Lou Anarumo.  I'm not super confident we are following the template quite enough.

None of the other new coaches got Wade Phillips either.

[*Nately120*]

(07-29-2019, 11:48 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: None of the other new coaches got Wade Phillips either.

The template seems to involve getting a vet DC to help take pressure off the young offensive minded HC. Stuff like this makes me wonder just how committed we are to following the Rams template.

I can't see the future but are we really going to act surprised if Lou is in way over his head as a DC to a rookie offensive HC?  This situation is tentative to say the least. 

[Catmandude123]

(07-29-2019, 11:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The template seems to involve getting a vet DC to help take pressure off the young offensive minded HC. Stuff like this makes me wonder just how committed we are to following the Rams template.

I can't see the future but are we really going to act surprised if Lou is in way over his head as a DC to a rookie offensive HC?  This situation is tentative to say the least. .

Hopefully the staff meshes with the players and the players and coaches have a new awakening  and turn the team around week by week. They definitely need to kick it up or my fall will be comprised of going to outlet stores with my wife, trying to look interested in outdated merchandize that I have no interest in. not going to take It They better do something because I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more. All jokes aside this could be the season that we look back at and say "that was our franchise turnaround season.

[GreenCornBengal]

I think this defense has a chance to be a pleasant surprise this season. Can't be much worse than last year anyway.

I'm excited to watch the development of Hubbard and Bates. Good to see guys like Lawson and Glasgow back. Dre sounds like he is embracing the leadership role and is looking to have a great year (maybe he practiced catching this off-season).

As someone stated earlier, I also think getting Fej on the field more will be a nice boost to the D as well.

[NKURyan]

(07-29-2019, 10:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So if the defense couldn't learn Austin's defense which I doubt was totally new...how are they going to learn the new D this year?

Maybe Austin was just a really crappy teacher?

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-29-2019, 06:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe to a degree you can throw out last season. First 7 games or whatever Austin's scheme just sucked ! Whole D had the deer in the headlights look just way to unsure of what to do.

2nd half of season the injuries set in and although they played a bit better the damage was already done.

I look for them to rebound a good bit this season and at least be middle of the pack.

This, and the pressure from the front four wasn't really there and that left the back end exposed in that stupid zone.  People were raving about Dre blanketing people in that practice and his ability to break on the ball...something we saw little of last year.  They were playing so far off everyone that there was always an easy underneath completion.  I remember thinking Brees was going to go 100% completions against us last year and he looked bored doing it.  

Anarumo is having them contest every pass and not (seemingly) playing with the fear of not getting beat over the top.  They might not have been burned over the top last year, but no QB needed to...it was so easy underneath.  That is one of the reasons I have the most optimism is that our guys might play faster and more aggressive on defense.  It could yield more sacks and turnovers.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-29-2019, 10:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So if the defense couldn't learn Austin's defense which I doubt was totally new...how are they going to learn the new D this year?

It's not that they couldn't learn Austin's defense. It was to reactionary, to complicated, to soft. One defender reads reaction A and the other defender reads reaction B and another C the defense is all screwed up. You could see it in the players reactions after plays.

Defense by nature has to be played aggressively some times or you're just reacting all day, playing soft. The teeth of the D get pulled.

Playing aggressively you are going to get burnt at times. But hell go down swinging ! Don't just sit back and be a punching bag all day.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-29-2019, 11:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The template seems to involve getting a vet DC to help take pressure off the young offensive minded HC. Stuff like this makes me wonder just how committed we are to following the Rams template.

I can't see the future but are we really going to act surprised if Lou is in way over his head as a DC to a rookie offensive HC?  This situation is tentative to say the least. 

Our DC template seemed to be: Hire anyone* who will accept the job.


I've read that Greg Williams is doing well with the Jets.

* Denotes that they must be a former friend or acquaintance of ZT.

[fredtoast]

(07-30-2019, 02:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I've read that Greg Williams is doing well with the Jets.

Wow!!  Really?  How many yards and points have they allowed so far with Williams running the defense?

[Catmandude123]

(07-30-2019, 02:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our DC template seemed to be: Hire anyone* who will accept the job.


I've read that Greg Williams is doing well with the Jets.

* Denotes that they must be a former friend or acquaintance of ZT.

Just maybe things will work out in our favor. Stop laughing. It could happen. If they would have hired Williams there would be some who would have had a conniption fit. Does no good to look back at this point. DAMN THE TORPEDOS FULL STEAM AHEAD

[grampahol]

I have no idea how Lou will pan out, but it'll be tough for him to be as bad as Austin was. Austin was a train wreck even before the engines got turned over and it carried through most of the season until Marvin finally began to get them up to snuff..still too late to make any difference.
Lou, on the other hand has at least some credibility with the back end and for the time being seems to have the defense motivated. 
Many fans like to look backwards to predict the future and occasionally that works, but with an almost entirely new coaching staff i just don't see looking backwards as a particularly good indicator of the future. 
It's kind of like saying, "I drove an old broken down Ford for 20 years that could barely run, but now have a brand new car so of course it too won't run because the old Ford didn't." 

[sandwedge]

I actually like what I have heard from Lou and the players. I think we could be surprised by making him our DC. You have to start somewhere, all DCs were position coaches before they became DC

[NKURyan]

(07-30-2019, 02:38 PM)sandwedge Wrote: You have to start somewhere, all DCs were position coaches before they became DC

I wonder if Vikings fans got their panties in a twist when they hired the relatively unknown Mike Tomlin as DC. All that resulted in was a top ten defense for them before Tomlin went on to win a Super Bowl as a head coach elsewhere.

Lou has a pretty good track record at developing players in the secondary. We have young talent in the secondary. Personally I'm excited to see what he can do with WJIII and Bates.

People just wanted a big name and have held it against him since the hire.

[J24]

(07-29-2019, 10:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So if the defense couldn't learn Austin's defense which I doubt was totally new...how are they going to learn the new D this year?

The problem with Austin was the Defense was playing complementary football to the offense instead of an Alpha role  in which was played under Zimmer. It was the same problem they had under Guenther. I don't think you can win that way unless you have a superstar QB at the Helm.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2019, 05:17 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: With training camp here and the season just around the corner, I feel like i hear nothing and know nothing about this defense. Is their any reason to be optimistic for these guys? If there has been any hype around the D I have missed it. I don’t post on here much anymore but I will often peak in. Between the boards and the articles everything is focused on coaching staff, the o-line, and of course now with resigning of Boyd and Green’s injury, focus has shifted to WR core. Can someone shed some light on our LB core and will the rookie we drafted fight for a starting spot? How about our safety situation? For how many points the D gave up last year I feel like there has been no focus on them, which in that case makes me believe we should expect more of the same this year. Your knowledge is appreciated here! Thanks!

This Defense should be much better this year with the Drafting of Pratt and Preston Brown being healthy. The Linebackers have a new coach with a great resume in Tem and the LB's were the problem last year. Bates and Hubbard should only grow from their rookie year and they both had a great one. We have a good D-line and Secondary, if the LB's pick up the slack we should be back to being a top 10 Defense.

[McC]

(07-30-2019, 02:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our DC template seemed to be: Hire anyone* who will accept the job.


I've read that Greg Williams is doing well with the Jets.

* Denotes that they must be a former friend or acquaintance of ZT.

So, if people are saying our DC is doing well, it means nothing because nobody's playing any football yet but if people report that the Jets' new DC is doing well, that is significant, even though they haven't played any football yet either?  Okay.  Pretty much says it all about where you're coming from.