All the starters go Thursday Ross out

[yellowxdiscipline]

I know its preseason and i dont really care who sits or plays, but if this bullshit carries over into the regular season id be perfectly fine showing John Ross the door. He can't manage to stay healthy then he doesn't need to be on this team.

[Bengalitis]

(08-20-2019, 12:02 AM)McC Wrote: I think the worst case scenario is he makes a helluva decoy to keep safeties occupied  and you get plays from him from time to time.  It's hard to picture him ever being a full time player but that doesn't mean he has nothing to give.  We'll find out in Seattle.  

But if you're gonna throw deep passes to him, maybe try throwing one that's catchable for a change.

You have to be desperate to be using your #1 drafted receiver as a "helluva decoy".  

[jj22]

(08-20-2019, 08:57 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: You have to be desperate to be using your #1 drafted receiver as a "helluva decoy".  

You also have to fear he is going to make plays in order for it to work. As of now it's like a play action to a rb averaging 2.5 ypc. Defense is just going to ignore him.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-19-2019, 06:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Regardless of word, he's injured way too much and his production isn't nearly as much as it should be for a #9 pick, short of 7 TDs last year. Which is, honestly, pretty mediocre for such a high draft pick.

That's fair, but once again it's not his fault he was drafted that high. That's the Bengals' fault. The dude was a game changer when on the field at Washington. He had 81 receptions and 18 TDs his final year. They knew how to utilize his skill set properly.

What can't be disputed:
- Ross's injuries have kept him from the field thus far
- Ross hiding his injury his rookie year didn't help matters
- Ross's lack of availability has limited his ability to learn the offense enough that he still had (has?) mishaps when actually on the field.

Regarding using injury though as for a reason why a player wasn't worth a 1st round pick, I think that's unfair. Would you say the same about Eifert? Eifert wasn't some perennial 700+ yard TE in his rookie deal. His career has been derailed by injuries too. But his talent justified a 1st round pick. You'll never know if or when injuries occur. And yes, I've criticized Eifert staying healthy, but that was in regards to re-signing him, not about cutting him during his rookie contract.

I guess here's my ultimate stance. John Ross still counts just over $10 mill against the cap the next two years whether he's cut or not. At this point, his stock is so low that there's not really any value in trading him. If he doesn't blossom by the end of his rookie deal, then there's no reason to re-sign him and the Bengals can move on. And with next year's crop of WRs in the draft, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Bengals go with a WR on Day 1 or Day 2 if Ross doesn't blossom by the end of this season.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-19-2019, 05:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: Just read through the thread if you think I'm the only one confused with all the spin. I mean, you are posting in the thread. Did you not read it.

Again.

We've heard in this very thread

He's day to day
He's not injured ZT is holding him out
He's out 2 weeks.

Now what are you talking about?

What are the sources saying "he's day to day" and "he's not injured ZT is holding him out"?
Just because something was said by a poster in this thread doesn't make it true.

And no, I did not and do not read every post in a 5+ page thread. There are 20 posts per page. I'm not about to read 100+ posts when typically 70%+ of them are essentially the same content but phrased differently.

[XenoMorph]

(08-18-2019, 10:21 PM)jason Wrote: I'm with you now. I gotta go with John Ross then. The guy is a rumor. At least Williams has run into the backside of a center or guard, and then fell down a couple of times. In his defense, he's a late round pick, and I wasn't expecting anything from him anyway.

Ross and denard have played the same amount of time this preseason

[Luvnit2]

(08-20-2019, 10:27 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Ross and denard have played the same amount of time this preseason

True, but Dennard is not on the "hate" list so no big deal.

Ross is attacked simply because of his draft position. Many hated the pick (I was at PBS and many of us booed) so he was already under scrutiny. Most expect a top 10 to 12 pick to be a super star. Williams will not be in 2019 due to injury and truth is many 1st round picks in year one were not healthy the entire 1st year of recent drafts.

To say cut him or trade him for nothing at this point is careless in my opinion. He has a guaranteed contract and is getting paid regardless. Trade you get a roster spot and rid of some of salary, but eat the bonus money on the cap.

It is preseason, I would love to see him out there so it frustrates me, but if he is on the field game one and ready, I am hopeful he can redeem himself under ZT's new offense. He is not a total bust, he did have 7 TD's with limited catches in 2018 so build on that in 2019 hopefully.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2019, 12:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: Core has never had more than 200 yards receiving or 1 TD in a season.  He's still on the team.

Josh Malone has 75 career receiving yards and 1 TD.  He's still on the team.

Auden Tate has 35 career receiving yards and no TD's.  He's still on the team.

Alex Erickson has never had more than 180 receiving yards in a season, nor more than 1 TD.  He's still on the team, although he is the primary return man if we're being fair.

As much of a disappointment as he's been, nobody behind him has been able to take his job.  If you were going to entertain the thought of cutting the guy, you can't do it unless someone grabs that #3 job by the throat.  Nobody has.  

You don't cut a guy on a rookie deal with 7 receiving TD's, whether he's a #1 overall pick or an UDFA.  If you give Auden Tate Ross's stat line from last year, people would be screaming for him to start.  

Those guys can play special teams including tackle people. I doubt Ross could do that without getting hurt.

You sure do focus on the 7 receiving TD's a lot. You seem to omit the 210 yards which is horrible for a guy that was a #3 WR, but also had plenty of #2 and #1 receiver opportunities due to guys in front of him getting injured.

Auden Tate actually plays hard in games and fights for 50/50 balls and catches a bunch of them. Ross seems to give up on contested throws. Big difference. Tate is hungrier by a lot.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2019, 10:59 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: True, but Dennard is not on the "hate" list so no big deal.

Ross is attacked simply because of his draft position. Many hated the pick (I was at PBS and many of us booed) so he was already under scrutiny. Most expect a top 10 to 12 pick to be a super star. Williams will not be in 2019 due to injury and truth is many 1st round picks in year one were not healthy the entire 1st year of recent drafts.

To say cut him or trade him for nothing at this point is careless in my opinion. He has a guaranteed contract and is getting paid regardless. Trade you get a roster spot and rid of some of salary, but eat the bonus money on the cap.

It is preseason, I would love to see him out there so it frustrates me, but if he is on the field game one and ready, I am hopeful he can redeem himself under ZT's new offense. He is not a total bust, he did have 7 TD's with limited catches in 2018 so build on that in 2019 hopefully.

I think it's more than just Ross. Ced and Fisher were huge whiffs and they drafted Ced with a major injury. Price had injuries and was subpar last year. Eifert has been injured A LOT. Now Jonah out for the season. Jackson missed his rookie year.

At the time, people thought Ross was going too high and there were definitely red flags. I remember people said the same about Ced.

It seems like common sense in those cases, but the Bengals avoided the Red Flags.

[jj22]

(08-20-2019, 10:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What are the sources saying "he's day to day" and "he's not injured ZT is holding him out"?
Just because something was said by a poster in this thread doesn't make it true.

And no, I did not and do not read every post in a 5+ page thread. There are 20 posts per page. I'm not about to read 100+ posts when typically 70%+ of them are essentially the same content but phrased differently.

That's fine and all, but then just post a comment on your thoughts. Don't quote and come for people who are discussing topics in a thread when you haven't read the thread.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2019, 11:41 AM)jj22 Wrote: That's fine and all, but then just post a comment on your thoughts. Don't quote and come for people who are discussing topics in a thread when you haven't read the thread.

Umm I'm pretty sure most people don't read every comment and still reply to people if they wish to comment on their posts.
With that said, I'll do what I want, thanks.

[J24]

1.) Ross will never live up to the top 10 draft pick because he never should have been drafted there.
2.) Just because he was overdrafted doesn't mean he should not get a chance to prove himself this season.
3.) The guy has 4.2 speed and can stretch the Defense. He is easily the most talented WR besides Green.
4.) He doesn't have to be a 1,000 yard WR to be effective; all we need from him his between 600-800 yards and him averaging over 15 ypc this season.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2019, 12:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Ross will never live up to the top 10 draft pick because he never should have been drafted there.
2.) Just because he was overdrafted doesn't mean he should not get a chance to prove himself this season.
3.) The guy has 4.2 speed and can stretch the Defense. He is easily the most talented WR besides Green.
4.) He doesn't have to be a 1,000 yard WR  to be effective; all we need from him his between 600-800 yards and him averaging over 15 ypc this season.

I agree with most of that.

He had 4.2 speed at the combine. I'm not sure he plays as fast in games as his combine speed and I think that's because he thinks too much and isn't just out there playing.

[Whatever]

(08-20-2019, 11:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Those guys can play special teams including tackle people. I doubt Ross could do that without getting hurt.

You sure do focus on the 7 receiving TD's a lot. You seem to omit the 210 yards which is horrible for a guy that was a #3 WR, but also had plenty of #2 and #1 receiver opportunities due to guys in front of him getting injured.

Auden Tate actually plays hard in games and fights for 50/50 balls and catches a bunch of them. Ross seems to give up on contested throws. Big difference. Tate is hungrier by a lot.

I don't think I've seen much out of Malone on ST's.  You can put anyone out there on ST's, but it doesn't mean they're going to be good.  Ross played CB in an emergency at Washington, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. 

Well, yeah.  Touchdowns score points.  You have to score more points than the other team to win games.  His yardage is terrible, no doubt.  So is every other WR on the team not named Green or Boyd.  Everyone got opportunities last year.  All of them were underwhelming. Nobody jumped up and took his job from him.   It isn't like there's a bunch of studs sitting behind him.  

5'10" WR's don't typically win a bunch of 50/50 balls.  4.6 40 WR's don't generally cut the top off a defense.  I don't really care how a guy wins as long as he wins.  Tate has a place on the team, imo, but we've seen this song and dance before.  Everyone was talking up Tate last off-season and saying put him in the red zone and he'll be this l TD machine.  Turns out, that was Ross.

[jj22]

(08-20-2019, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Umm I'm pretty sure most people don't read every comment and still reply to people if they wish to comment on their posts.
With that said, I'll do what I want, thanks.

Then you'll look the way you looked with your "what are you talking about". When it was clear to everyone who....... read the thread.

But carry on.

[THE PISTONS]

I was on vacation for a week and returned to a spicy message board. Seems like everyone is arguing.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2019, 12:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Ross will never live up to the top 10 draft pick because he never should have been drafted there.
2.) Just because he was overdrafted doesn't mean he should not get a chance to prove himself this season.
3.) The guy has 4.2 speed and can stretch the Defense. He is easily the most talented WR besides Green.
4.) He doesn't have to be a 1,000 yard WR  to be effective; all we need from him his between 600-800 yards and him averaging over 15 ypc this season.

Good post Jake, agree with all of this, just hope Ross can get healthy and stay that way.

He does score TD's which helps us win games.

(08-20-2019, 12:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree with most of that.

He had 4.2 speed at the combine. I'm not sure he plays as fast in games as his combine speed and I think that's because he thinks too much and isn't just out there playing.

Even Boyd said this, Ross thinks too much out there instead of just playing fast.

[Luvnit2]

(08-20-2019, 12:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I was on vacation for a week and returned to a spicy message board. Seems like everyone is arguing.

So it is all your fault for taking a vacation..Geez 

[Luvnit2]

(08-20-2019, 12:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Ross will never live up to the top 10 draft pick because he never should have been drafted there.
2.) Just because he was overdrafted doesn't mean he should not get a chance to prove himself this season.
3.) The guy has 4.2 speed and can stretch the Defense. He is easily the most talented WR besides Green.
4.) He doesn't have to be a 1,000 yard WR  to be effective; all we need from him his between 600-800 yards and him averaging over 15 ypc this season.

I agree with almost all you wrote, but I think Boyd is a talent and is 2nd best talent on the team, not second best athletic WR, but talented.

[*Nately120*]

(08-20-2019, 01:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He does score TD's which helps us win games.

I realize there is more to it than just Ross, but we are 2-5 in games where he has a TD.  Hopefully more of his 2019 TDs will be impactful and not just garbage time stat-padders. He did catch TDs in games vs the Colts and Falcons before the whole season went to crapola, I just feel like a season with so much garbage time would have led to more more more TDs and more more more receptions.