Do you trust Zac with player overhaul too?

[sonofstat]

Lots of back and forth on whether the record is primarily the product of inheriting a poor squad or poor coaching (obviously its both but that's too pragmatic a position for a message board right! )

So, simple question.

In the off season do you trust Zac leading a significant player overhaul?

What was in his control clearly this off season was the coaching overhaul and that looks dubious at the moment with particularly Turner and Lou in the crosshairs.

But do you feel confident in him assembling a roster.

Does he knows where to get his new QB, whether he values LB position or not and will invest in it, is he a 4-3/3-4 guy and does he know what players he needs to get there, does he want small speedy WR's / big bodies etc,etc.

[WeezyBengal]

I feel about as confident in him as I do Duke Tobin and the rest of the ri ri squad.

[J24]

I would like to see what this staff can do with their own players.

[jj22]

We shouldn't have to. We should be able to trust Tobin.

Which we can't with a player overhaul. We are about to hit bottom and unlike the Dolphins, have no extra picks to show for it.

The teams in for it as we wait this aging roster out to start over. By then hopefully ZT will be wiser. But it will still take awhile to build the roster back up to a contender, especially with the misses coming in the draft all to often these last 7 years.

ZT just needs to coach and fix the Offense. He's got enough on his plate.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(10-01-2019, 10:07 AM)jj22 Wrote: We shouldn't have to. We should be able to trust Tobin.

Which we can't with a player overhaul. We are about to hit bottom and unlike the Dolphins, have no extra picks to show for it.

The teams in for it as we wait this aging roster out to start over. By then hopefully ZT will be wiser. But it will still take awhile to build the roster back up to a contender, especially with the misses coming in the draft all to often these last 7 years.

ZT just needs to coach and fix the Offense. He's got enough on his plate.

Tobin resigned Bobby Hart and defended it, he's officially lost my trust.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Have you ever seen the movie “Down Periscope” with Kelsey Grammer? Zac Taylor is Kelsey Grammer and the Bengals are the USS Stingray.

[SunsetBengal]

To me, it's hard to envision what sort of personnel moves that Zac would make, without knowing how much control and authority is granted to him. Honestly? I'm hoping that the team looks to upgrade some of the coaching positions, as well as build/rebuild the roster.

[RunKijanaRun]

(10-01-2019, 10:19 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Have you ever seen the movie “Down Periscope” with Kelsey Grammer?  Zac Taylor is Kelsey Grammer and the Bengals are the USS Stingray.

PREPARE FER DIVE

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2019, 09:57 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Lots of back and forth on whether the record is primarily the product of inheriting a poor squad or poor coaching (obviously its both but that's too pragmatic a position for a message board right!   )

So, simple question.  

In the off season do you trust Zac leading a significant player overhaul?

What was in his control clearly this off season was the coaching overhaul and that looks dubious at the moment with particularly Turner and Lou in the crosshairs.

But do you feel confident in him assembling a roster.

Does he knows where to get his new QB, whether he values LB position or not and will invest in it, is he a 4-3/3-4 guy and does he know what players he needs to get there, does he want small speedy WR's / big bodies etc,etc.

It's hard to say.
Zac Taylor couldn't technically start working with the Bengals until Feb 4.
He then had to assemble his entire staff, of which took practically the entire month.
That left very little time to research and plan for players in FA.
I think because of that whirlwind, the team relied on re-signing players like Hart, Brown, Uzomah, Eifert, and Dennard while signing backup-caliber outside FAs with ties to Anarumo like BW Webb and Kerry Wynn.

I'm willing to give Taylor one more offseason to turn things around since he'll have a full offseason starting 12/30/19 (day after Week 17) to fully dive into everything.
I'm really hoping we see one of two approaches:
1) Team truly identifies the age of the core talented players and goes all in for 2020 by picking up quality starters in FA who are in the Top 15 at their position.
2) Go full rebuild and not have the following players back who will be in the final year of their contracts or will hit FA: Green, Dalton, Glenn, Eifert, Vigil, Dennard, Smith. I'd also look to trade/cut Kirkpatrick, Hart, Brown. If the Bengals go this option, they would have $100+ mill to spend. Some FAs I'd love to see are Littleton, Castonzo and/or Bulaga, and a WR (there are plenty solid vet options to pick from).

[kalibengal]

(10-01-2019, 10:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's hard to say.
Zac Taylor couldn't technically start working with the Bengals until Feb 4.
He then had to assemble his entire staff, of which took practically the entire month.
That left very little time to research and plan for players in FA.
I think because of that whirlwind, the team relied on re-signing players like Hart, Brown, Uzomah, Eifert, and Dennard while signing backup-caliber outside FAs with ties to Anarumo like BW Webb and Kerry Wynn.

I'm willing to give Taylor one more offseason to turn things around since he'll have a full offseason starting 12/30/19 (day after Week 17) to fully dive into everything.
I'm really hoping we see one of two approaches:
1) Team truly identifies the age of the core talented players and goes all in for 2020 by picking up quality starters in FA who are in the Top 15 at their position.
2) Go full rebuild and not have the following players back who will be in the final year of their contracts or will hit FA: Green, Dalton, Glenn, Eifert, Vigil, Dennard, Smith. I'd also look to trade/cut Kirkpatrick, Hart, Brown. If the Bengals go this option, they would have $100+ mill to spend. Some FAs I'd love to see are Littleton, Castonzo and/or Bulaga, and a WR (there are plenty solid vet options to pick from).

[Big Boss]

The thing is, I can't absolve Taylor of all blame because we really don't know how involved he was in the signings made this past off-season. If he was advocating for Bobby Hart, John Miller, Andre Smith, and John Jerry, then on that alone he should be shit-canned.

Or maybe he had zero choice in the matter and was basically handed this glob of shit.

We don't know.

[kalibengal]

Lets add Geno and Dunlap to that group. I see better games from second stringers through out the league...and don't give me "he gets double teamed BS" It doesnt seem to stop the good ones out there. THIS TEAM NEEDS A HUGE ENEMA!

[XenoMorph]

(10-01-2019, 09:57 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Lots of back and forth on whether the record is primarily the product of inheriting a poor squad or poor coaching (obviously its both but that's too pragmatic a position for a message board right!   )

So, simple question.  

In the off season do you trust Zac leading a significant player overhaul?

What was in his control clearly this off season was the coaching overhaul and that looks dubious at the moment with particularly Turner and Lou in the crosshairs.

But do you feel confident in him assembling a roster.

Does he knows where to get his new QB, whether he values LB position or not and will invest in it, is he a 4-3/3-4 guy and does he know what players he needs to get there, does he want small speedy WR's / big bodies etc,etc.

well at this rate we should have a new staff next season too.

[GreenCornBengal]

I thought Zac was real smart when he installed a play clock on the practice field.

I also witnessed the team waste time on each down in the 3rd quarter of last nights game and watched a vet QB take a needless delay of game.

Zac is all talk at this point until he proves otherwise.

[sonofstat]

(10-01-2019, 10:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's hard to say.
Zac Taylor couldn't technically start working with the Bengals until Feb 4.
He then had to assemble his entire staff, of which took practically the entire month.
That left very little time to research and plan for players in FA.
I think because of that whirlwind, the team relied on re-signing players like Hart, Brown, Uzomah, Eifert, and Dennard while signing backup-caliber outside FAs with ties to Anarumo like BW Webb and Kerry Wynn.

I'm willing to give Taylor one more offseason to turn things around since he'll have a full offseason starting 12/30/19 (day after Week 17) to fully dive into everything.
I'm really hoping we see one of two approaches:
1) Team truly identifies the age of the core talented players and goes all in for 2020 by picking up quality starters in FA who are in the Top 15 at their position.
2) Go full rebuild and not have the following players back who will be in the final year of their contracts or will hit FA: Green, Dalton, Glenn, Eifert, Vigil, Dennard, Smith. I'd also look to trade/cut Kirkpatrick, Hart, Brown. If the Bengals go this option, they would have $100+ mill to spend. Some FAs I'd love to see are Littleton, Castonzo and/or Bulaga, and a WR (there are plenty solid vet options to pick from).

I think how he handles Green and Dalton will be fascinating.

The previous player overhaul on offense was almost forced up on us by Carson Palmer. I do wonder if he goes all in on offense with a completely new identity.  

If Zac straps himself to the side of Dalton, AJ this offseason plus he has already tied up on hid behalf Geno and Dunlap then he limits his options more for a full rebuild in my opinion.  Basically you're franchise players and leaders are the same again...

[THE PISTONS]

Supposedly Taylor evaluated our roster...so presumably he had atleast some say in keeping Hart and Brown. IF he said they were bad, I doubt the Bengals would have kept them.

I feel like the team banked on a new staff making these guys better.

Maybe Taylor was a smooth talker and fooled management?

[sonofstat]

(10-01-2019, 10:33 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To me, it's hard to envision what sort of personnel moves that Zac would make, without knowing how much control and authority is granted to him.  Honestly?  I'm hoping that the team looks to upgrade some of the coaching positions, as well as build/rebuild the roster.

I'm assuming that he - or at least the coaches he brought in -comfortable going with Hart, Andre , Miller etc ...certainly seen Turner talk them up so that sounds like its their choice, approval.

Also things like only originally going with 3 LB's or whatever it was in the final 53 was their call ultimately.

If it wasn't and they just took those decisions from Tobin then I'm again nervous as the FO had years to know / work with Marvin on players to bring in and their characteristics...they only had weeks with the new coaching staff so not sure they are aligned right now.

[*PhilHos*]

I prefer to believe that Taylor was convinced by the front office to not make many personnel changes. I also like to think Taylor is upset at the kind of crap he currently has that he could've addressed this past offseason. So, I'm hoping Taylor is going to pull out all the stops and do everything within his power to get his kind of players here this next offseason.

It may be more wishful thinking than anything based in reality, but I don't care.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2019, 02:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Supposedly Taylor evaluated our roster...so presumably he had atleast some say in keeping Hart and Brown. IF he said they were bad, I doubt the Bengals would have kept them.

I feel like the team banked on a new staff making these guys better.

Maybe Taylor was a smooth talker and fooled management?

I think a big problem is Taylor's staff, for the most part, hand't worked first-hand with Hart and Brown and didn't have an opportunity to do so before FA hit. Therefore, they had to take the input from the staff members who were there from last year.

If this team cannot attract quality FAs, this is going to be a multi-year rebuild and overly reliant on draft picks developing well.

[sonofstat]

(10-01-2019, 02:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Supposedly Taylor evaluated our roster...so presumably he had atleast some say in keeping Hart and Brown. IF he said they were bad, I doubt the Bengals would have kept them.

I feel like the team banked on a new staff making these guys better.

Maybe Taylor was a smooth talker and fooled management?

He certainly sounded like he interviewed well...you just worry he got promoted beyond his current skills and experience.

Unfortunately he could have learnt more on the job if he had assembled a rock star staff underneath him...now he's springing leaks all over the place and I honestly don't know if he has the skills or bandwidth to solve all the issues this season.

I really, really wish he had just gotten a rock solid , experienced DC in.