He doesn't have AJ Green. Who has carried him for years.
This is the guy who has only passed for more than 3,700 yards twice and topped 27 TDs once in his EIGHT YEAR career.
And we act like trying something different is super bad. I don't get it.
Some people love to root for the nice guys. Do you think if Dalton had the personality of Baker Mayfield with the exact same results he’d have such ardent defenders?
Nothing has changed with Dalton. One of his positive qualities is his balance and consistency. He just does not have a very high ceiling, hes not going to consistently make great plays and out throw a defense coverage or scramble on a 3rd down. Hes more likely to throw a ball away on 3rd down or take a sack, Never really bringing the competitive fire out and outplaying the opponent across from him. He reads coverage pretty good, not fantastic, has a nice arm, not fantastic, but he has had an offense here in Cincy built around him for along time now and he has not got the job done. Its probably time for a new man at QB. I would suggest the team start taking offers for him in a trade but lets be honest, its the Bengals were talking about here, Dalton will probably play out his contract as the starting QB.
I will watch the Bengals 0-15 or 15-0.
I will call them my favourite team in professional sports.
I will never give up on them. I will watch all games to the end preseason or regular season.
I will say this it is time to move on from Andy Dalton. Is Finley the answer? I will say not sure! If worst comes to worse ride Andy Dalton for much of the remainder of this year and if nothing changes trade him in the offseason.
Use Finley moving forward, draft a QB or pick another QB up through a trade or Free Agency!
That is the best solution at this point.
(10-01-2019, 09:21 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: How would we even know if Dalton is broke, with the line getting worse every year? Give him a competent line and then see what he does. Statistically Dalton's worst year was still his rookie year.
What exactly do you think you're going to see that you haven't already seen in the first nearly 9 seasons ?
Sure if we had the 1988 Bengals Oline next season he'd probably do pretty good, perhaps even great ? But the problem is we're not gonna have the 88 Oline next season and I doubt even the season after.
You really think MB is gonna go out this offseason and pick up a couple top shelf FA Olinemen ?
(10-02-2019, 12:18 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Once again, you don't seem to get it. You can't tell if Andy's broken with a line that has progressively gotten worse each year. You can only tell if he's broken if the line was good, but Andy played bad. Which he hasn't, outside of the playoffs.
There is always a reason to get a better o line, regardless of who the QB is. And the only way you could tell if he's broken is if you did have a better line (my entire point). Andy got better every season his first 5 years. Then the line went to shit and we've had this regression. The line stunted Andy's growth, not Andy.
I don't think you noticed that he was average with elite pass blocking lines...
Whether he's "broken" or not, statistics already show that he's average to slightly above average with an elite level pass blocking offensive line. He has had one elite level season when he had a great line and healthy weapons AND a great defense. He needs all those things to be good+.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-02-2019, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No YOU don’t seem to get it. As rfaulk pointed out, Andy had a decent OL for 5 years. And he got us absolutely nowhere with it.
But back then the excuses were Marvin, the OC, lack of weapons, blah blah blah...
The Bengals literally wasted 5 years of great pass blocking and great defense.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
Dalton hasn't changed, what's changed is the players surrounding him.
Dalton is usually about 10 notches below whatever talent you surround him with.
If you surround him with top 5 talent, like we did his first five years, he's about average, which is the 15th best QB in the NFL.
If you surround him with below average talent like we have now, then he's a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL.
It isn't like Dalton is worse than he used to be, it's just that his deficiencies are now exposed because he doesn't have the talent surrounding him on the offensive line, wide receivers ,tight ends and running backs to hide those deficiencies
Such as his inability to escape pressure, because with that offensive line the pressure was few and far between.
Or problems with getting balls knocked down at the line of scrimmage because most of the time he had no hands in his face.
His overthrowing or under throwing his targets because he had guys like Green, Sanu, Jones, Eifert, Gresham and Bernard bailing him out.
We could deal with his forcing balls into triple coverage because we had weapons to bail out his bad throwing decisions; Now that isn't the case.
We can't hide his weaknesses anymore and this is what you get, a bottom 5 qb who struggles to move the offense down the field.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
(10-03-2019, 01:51 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Dalton hasn't changed, what's changed is the players surrounding him.
Dalton is usually about 10 notches below whatever talent you surround him with.
If you surround him with top 5 talent, like we did his first five years, he's about average, which is the 15th best QB in the NFL.
If you surround him with below average talent like we have now, then he's a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL.
It isn't like Dalton is worse than he used to be, it's just that his deficiencies are now exposed because he doesn't have the talent surrounding him on the offensive line, wide receivers ,tight ends and running backs to hide those deficiencies
Such as his inability to escape pressure, because with that offensive line the pressure was few and far between.
Or problems with getting balls knocked down at the line of scrimmage because most of the time he had no hands in his face.
His overthrowing or under throwing his targets because he had guys like Green, Sanu, Jones, Eifert, Gresham and Bernard bailing him out.
We could deal with his forcing balls into triple coverage because we had weapons to bail out his bad throwing decisions; Now that isn't the case.
We can't hide his weaknesses anymore and this is what you get, a bottom 5 qb who struggles to move the offense down the field.
Except Dalton isn't a bottom 5 QB.
5th in comp
4th in att
6th in yards
20th in TDs
T-6th in INTs
26th in QB (higher if you take out the guys that have only played a couple of games)
So if you want to argue he's in the bottom 10 in a couple areas, ok. But, he's not bottom 5.
(10-03-2019, 01:51 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Dalton hasn't changed, what's changed is the players surrounding him.
Dalton is usually about 10 notches below whatever talent you surround him with.
If you surround him with top 5 talent, like we did his first five years, he's about average, which is the 15th best QB in the NFL.
If you surround him with below average talent like we have now, then he's a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL.
It isn't like Dalton is worse than he used to be, it's just that his deficiencies are now exposed because he doesn't have the talent surrounding him on the offensive line, wide receivers ,tight ends and running backs to hide those deficiencies
Such as his inability to escape pressure, because with that offensive line the pressure was few and far between.
Or problems with getting balls knocked down at the line of scrimmage because most of the time he had no hands in his face.
His overthrowing or under throwing his targets because he had guys like Green, Sanu, Jones, Eifert, Gresham and Bernard bailing him out.
We could deal with his forcing balls into triple coverage because we had weapons to bail out his bad throwing decisions; Now that isn't the case.
We can't hide his weaknesses anymore and this is what you get, a bottom 5 qb who struggles to move the offense down the field.
Top 5 talent his first 5 years made me actually laugh.
(10-03-2019, 11:43 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think you noticed that he was average with elite pass blocking lines...
Whether he's "broken" or not, statistics already show that he's average to slightly above average with an elite level pass blocking offensive line. He has had one elite level season when he had a great line and healthy weapons AND a great defense. He needs all those things to be good+.
I don't think you understood the very basic premise of my reply to the OP.
If Dalton was broken by 4 years of bad O-Line play, then the only logical measurement to see if Andy is broke, would be to have a better line and then see if he still played like he had a bad line. I'm not sure I can put it in terms more simple.
Do you not understand what the title of the thread was, or what the thread creator posted? Or who my post was directed at? At this point it's getting kind of ridiculous.
The subject of the thread is if Andy was broken do to a bad O-line. My reply is a direct posit to that subject.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with my reply to the topic creator. How many more synonyms do I have to use before you get this?
(10-05-2019, 04:03 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: I don't think you understood the very basic premise of my reply to the OP.
If Dalton was broken by 4 years of bad O-Line play, then the only logical measurement to see if Andy is broke, would be to have a better line and then see if he still played like he had a bad line. I'm not sure I can put it in terms more simple.
Do you not understand what the title of the thread was, or what the thread creator posted? Or who my post was directed at? At this point it's getting kind of ridiculous.
The subject of the thread is if Andy was broken do to a bad O-line. My reply is a direct posit to that subject.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with my reply to the topic creator. How many more synonyms do I have to use before you get this?
First of all, he hasn't had 4 years of bad Oline play. 2017 is when the bad line play started. Second, there's no need to "see if he's broken" by waiting and putting him in with a better line because we know how he plays behind a good line--as noted in my posts above.
Lastly, Dalton isn't broken. He just plays poorly behind a bad line due to his own shortcomings.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-04-2019, 08:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We had one of the best rosters in the league from 2013-2015.
Lol 2014 everyone was hurt, but ok. We had an above average roster in 2013, but no run game and Sanu/Jones were just starting to get their stride. Wow, Dalton had a good supporting cast 2 years since he's been here and those 2 years he was top passer rating until he got hurt in one and the other 3rd in TDs and 7th in yards. Funny how that works
(10-05-2019, 11:50 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: First of all, he hasn't had 4 years of bad Oline play. 2017 is when the bad line play started. Second, there's no need to "see if he's broken" by waiting and putting him in with a better line because we know how he plays behind a good line--as noted in my posts above.
Lastly, Dalton isn't broken. He just plays poorly behind a bad line due to his own shortcomings.
Lol 2016 Dalton was tied for 4th most sacked QB. Tied with Luck. 2012 he was 3rd most sacked. Dalton has played behind a bad line the majority of his career now
(10-05-2019, 07:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lol 2014 everyone was hurt, but ok. We had an above average roster in 2013, but no run game and Sanu/Jones were just starting to get their stride. Wow, Dalton had a good supporting cast 2 years since he's been here and those 2 years he was top passer rating until he got hurt in one and the other 3rd in TDs and 7th in yards. Funny how that works
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