Maybe QB isn't our biggest problem?

[*bfine32*]

It's always something other than the obvious to many around here.

[samhain]

If the season continues like this, and I have no reason to expect that it won't, I think we'll have a top 3 pick. This is enough to get a quarterback, which I believe they will do without hesitation. Let me explain why.

Haters abound in Bengaldom, and Dalton haters might be second only to Brown family haters such as yours truly. Mike Brown is as dumb as a bag of hammers filled with diarrhea when it comes to building a winning team. I mean, he really sucks shit. Like, a whole lot. He's also an asshole that doesn't care about winning, which is the truth, as much as it offends some people around here.

All that said, he'll see the empty stadium and want to make a change like he did when he axed Marvin. He'll want to do this while being lazy as hell and doing as little as possible in outside FA. See, he's also and arrogant dickwad who believe we are all moronic yokels who might believe that a little bit of change on this roster will fix the multitude of issues we have here.

Drafting a quarterback early is an easy way out for him. It's a cost controlled option. It's high profile. It will generate hype in the media right up until the rubber meets the road. He has to participate in the draft anyway, so it's no skin off his back to make the call. It's almost as easy as hiring a young coach for cheap and filling out his staff with rejects and clowns like he did this year. It doesn't force him to participate in dreaded outside free agency.

Drafting a quarterback early requires the least effort as an option for change this offseason. It's a natural pivot for Mike Brown. Let Andy walk, draft a high profile guy, do everything else the "Bengal Way". Rinse and repeat, get the kid murdered behind a bunch of bums and retreads on the o-line, give up a shitload of yards on defense, empty PBS, ask for a new stadium, have the city of Cincinnati tell you to piss off, move the team in 2026 when you're dead and ***** face Troy Boy is running the team he married into like a true piece of worthless trash, blah blah.

[TKUHL]

(10-11-2019, 06:35 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We're dead last in rushing yards allowed per a game & second to last in rushing yards per a game.
Also Second to last in Redzone scoring on offense infact we are one of three teams to have an under 30% score rate in the Redzone.
Not saying we should not draft a QB early but we should not rule out other positions.

QB may not be the biggest problem but it’s top 3. Can’t believe I’m going to say this but the line played better these past 2 weeks. What one sack last week and none today til late in the 4th. Yet we only had 22 yards in the first have last week and didn’t do much better this week. I know the line is forcing Dalton to get rid of it fast but even when he’s had time he’s been bad. He just doesn't have it, he’s not a leader.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 12:42 AM)samhain Wrote: If the season continues like this, and I have no reason to expect that it won't, I think we'll have a top 3 pick.  This is enough to get a quarterback,  which I believe they will do without hesitation.  Let me explain why.

Haters abound in Bengaldom, and Dalton haters might be second only to Brown family haters such as yours truly.  Mike Brown is as dumb as a bag of hammers filled with diarrhea when it comes to building a winning team.  I mean, he really sucks shit.  Like, a whole lot.  He's also an asshole that doesn't care about winning, which is the truth, as much as it offends some people around here.  

All that said, he'll see the empty stadium and want to make a change like he did when he axed Marvin.  He'll want to do this while being lazy as hell and doing as little as possible in outside FA.  See, he's also and arrogant dickwad who believe we are all moronic yokels who might believe that a little bit of change on this roster will fix the multitude of issues we have here.

Drafting a quarterback early is an easy way out for him.  It's a cost controlled option.  It's high profile.  It will generate hype in the media right up until the rubber meets the road.  He has to participate in the draft anyway, so it's no skin off his back to make the call.  It's almost as easy as hiring a young coach for cheap and filling out his staff with rejects and clowns like he did this year.  It doesn't force him to participate in dreaded outside free agency.  

Drafting a quarterback early requires the least effort as an option for change this offseason.  It's a natural pivot for Mike Brown.  Let Andy walk, draft a high profile guy, do everything else the "Bengal Way".  Rinse and repeat, get the kid murdered behind a bunch of bums and retreads on the o-line, give up a shitload of yards on defense, empty PBS, ask for a new stadium, have the city of Cincinnati tell you to piss off, move the team in 2026 when you're dead and ***** face Troy Boy is running the team he married into like a true piece of worthless trash, blah blah.

Yep.

[Big Boss]

I think fans want to pinpoint one person/group to blame because if the team only has that one issue to fix then we may be closer to righting the ship. For example, if the team's struggles were squarely on the offensive line, that could be fixable within 2-3 years. Maybe even one.

The sobering reality is that the team is deficient in several areas, and there isn't just one party to blame. Offensive line play has been bad, quarterback play has been bad, linebacker play has been bad, coaching and play-calling has been bad. When you recognize all of these deficiencies, you start to realize just how much of a rebuilding process we are in for. Giving the team's refusal to be more aggressive in free agency, it will take us years to fill these holes through the draft alone - and that's all predicated on us not whiffing on draft picks.

That's why I think they have to go QB with their first pick in 2020. If they're picking top 5, and there's an opportunity to improve at the most important position in the sport, you do it. There will be growing pains, and you'll have to figure out the rest as you go, but I think you have to go QB here.

[THE PISTONS]

This seems to indicate that Dalton isn't under as much pressure as fans think:

In the same span that Dalton accrued 7 batted passes (T-1st), Dalton was pressured on only 33.6% of his dropbacks, which ranks 19th among 26 qualifying quarterbacks.https://t.co/5uDBexKmJg

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 13, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 12:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This seems to indicate that Dalton isn't under as much pressure as fans think:

In the same span that Dalton accrued 7 batted passes (T-1st), Dalton was pressured on only 33.6% of his dropbacks, which ranks 19th among 26 qualifying quarterbacks.https://t.co/5uDBexKmJg

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 13, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They've definitely cleaned it up the last two games. Up to, and including Pittsburgh, they were giving up quite a bit of pressure and sacks. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2019, 12:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This seems to indicate that Dalton isn't under as much pressure as fans think:

In the same span that Dalton accrued 7 batted passes (T-1st), Dalton was pressured on only 33.6% of his dropbacks, which ranks 19th among 26 qualifying quarterbacks.https://t.co/5uDBexKmJg

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 13, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nonsense! Worst OL of all time! No QB could win here!!!

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 12:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: They've definitely cleaned it up the last two games. Up to, and including Pittsburgh, they were giving up quite a bit of pressure and sacks. 

But, the offense still sucks. I think the blitz is in his head more than it's actually in his face.

Might not be bad to put Finley in there and see what happens.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 01:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, the offense still sucks. I think the blitz is in his head more than it's actually in his face.

Might not be bad to put Finley in there and see what happens.

After 3 years and counting of getting pummeled, I'm sure it is. 

Might not at this point, but like I always say, a lot of guys around don't watch the rest of the league. I think we can all agree Philip Rivers is a better QB than Andy Dalton. Still yet, his line is playing like shit, and they're 2-4 and just lost at home to Shitsburgh with a 3rd string QB out there. It's never as simple as pointing to one guy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 01:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, the offense still sucks. I think the blitz is in his head more than it's actually in his face.

Might not be bad to put Finley in there and see what happens.

Oh, and we still can't run the ball. When your scheme is predicated on the play action, that would seem to handicap the whole unit in my mind.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 01:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, and we still can't run the ball. When your scheme is predicated on the play action, that would seem to handicap the whole unit in my mind.

See, I think there are things from a scheme perspective that they should be able to do to run the ball.

The Cardinals game stands out. That 1st drive, we ran the ball very well. Then the Cardinals made a tiny adjustment and took the run away. We just don't know how to adjust.

Keep teams off balance with a jet sweep or fake one way and go the other. Or play Bernard and Mixon together.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: See, I think there are things from a scheme perspective that they should be able to do to run the ball.

The Cardinals game stands out. That 1st drive, we ran the ball very well. Then the Cardinals made a tiny adjustment and took the run away. We just don't know how to adjust.

Keep teams off balance with a jet sweep or fake one way and go the other. Or play Bernard and Mixon together.

Yeah, bad adjustments in the AZ game for sure, but there have been a couple games where they did adjust....so I call it inconsistent.

I don't know that the line can hold long enough for plays with any double fakes, but I get your point. I've seen quite a few jet sweeps snuffed out this season, and defenses don't even bite on the fakes. 

It's a combination of a lot of different things to me.....but the most glaring problem is the blocking...which itself is inconsistent. Sometimes just flat out bad.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-14-2019, 01:11 AM)TKUHL Wrote: QB may not be the biggest problem but it’s top 3. Can’t believe I’m going to  say this but the line played better these past 2 weeks. What one sack last week and none today til late in the 4th. Yet we only had 22 yards in the first have last week and didn’t do much better this week. I know the line is forcing Dalton to get rid of it fast but even when he’s had time he’s been bad. He just doesn't have it, he’s not a leader.

Dalton is done. I think he's broken. It's partly the OL, partly the coaching staff (mainly Zampese and Lazor than current coaches), and partly him. He was good at one point in time, but not any more. It's definitely time to find a new QB whether it's Finley or Dolegala or rookie 2020 draft pick.

But, it's also time to fix the OL and get some quality LBs. It's time to USE FREE AGENCY TO ITS FULLEST. None of this nickel and dime crap. 

(10-14-2019, 01:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, the offense still sucks. I think the blitz is in his head more than it's actually in his face.

Yep. Its been this way for the last couple years. This is why the OL should've been addressed far earlier than it was. The question is, if Dalton remains your starting QB, how are you going to get him to stop seeing phantom pressure?

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2019, 10:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton may be the worst QB in the NFL at moving around the pocket to avoid the blitz. He just doesn't have it.

This just is not true.  It has become a popular message board myth like "Peko plays on roller skates and gets driven back 10 yards every play."

According to Profootballoutsiders last year Dalton's DVOA under pressure was -49.9.  That ranked 11th best out of the 34 QBs with at least 200 pass attempts.  PFO goes one step farther and looks at the difference between QBs DVOA with pressure and without.  Dalton had the 12th lowest difference.  So he is effected by pressure less than most QBs in the league.

[XenoMorph]

(10-11-2019, 07:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's the thing.  When a team decides to do a "rebuild", generally they pick their franchise QB and build around him.  Here, we have Andy in his 9th year.  They already built a damn fine team around him once, and he was never quite able to make the magic happened on the biggest stages.

So, do you build around Andy, again??  Or, do you go total on the rebuild, and pick a new centerpiece of the team?

well they really only had the pieces together for 1 year.... 2015....  maybe 2014  but we were empty when we hit the playoffs.

Then they let his WRs go

then they let his OL Go

WR while has been reloaded cant get them all on the field at the same time and OL has been miss after miss after miss...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2019, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.  It has become a popular message board myth like "Peko plays on roller skates and gets driven back 10 yards every play."

According to Profootballoutsiders last year Dalton's DVOA under pressure was -49.9.  That ranked 11th best out of the 34 QBs with at least 200 pass attempts.  PFO goes one step farther and looks at the difference between QBs DVOA with pressure and without.  Dalton had the 12th lowest difference.  So he is effected by pressure less than most QBs in the league.

How about this season?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 01:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Dalton is done. I think he's broken. It's partly the OL, partly the coaching staff (mainly Zampese and Lazor than current coaches), and partly him. He was good at one point in time, but not any more. It's definitely time to find a new QB whether it's Finley or Dolegala or rookie 2020 draft pick.

But, it's also time to fix the OL and get some quality LBs. It's time to USE FREE AGENCY TO ITS FULLEST. None of this nickel and dime crap. 


Yep. Its been this way for the last couple years. This is why the OL should've been addressed far earlier than it was. The question is, if Dalton remains your starting QB, how are you going to get him to stop seeing phantom pressure?

I don't know if you can fix the phantom pressure. As I've pointed out, his pocket presence isn't good.

The most Bengal thing to do would be to move on from Dalton and bring in an Eli Manning for a year or 2.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.  It has become a popular message board myth like "Peko plays on roller skates and gets driven back 10 yards every play."

According to Profootballoutsiders last year Dalton's DVOA under pressure was -49.9.  That ranked 11th best out of the 34 QBs with at least 200 pass attempts.  PFO goes one step farther and looks at the difference between QBs DVOA with pressure and without.  Dalton had the 12th lowest difference.  So he is effected by pressure less than most QBs in the league.

You sure about that? This lists him as a bottom 10 QB under pressure:


https://fantasydata.com/advanced-metrics-the-best-and-worst-qbs-under-pressure

[Joelist]

This thread is becoming a model of why Truck made his proposal - it keeps veering into flaming and personal attacks on players and such. Let's keep it centered on actual play?

For what it's worth I do think it might be good to let Andy sit out a couple of games and work on getting his timing back. It looks at least to me that the incredibly bad blocking for two plus season now has gotten his internal clock messed up. The main issue is how badly will this line get Finley pummeled. ZT also has to jettison the playaction scheme until this line sorts out run blocking so they CONSISTENTLY gain yards on rush plays. We've had one game where briefly it looked better but also our YPC got inflated by a splash play - the problem is splash plays are not what get defenses to respect the run and thus open up the playaction.