What changed in the running game

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-16-2019, 03:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Me and you can't fathom it, but the Bengals coaches viewed Hart as one of the best 5.

Only after Boling was removed from the equation though.

[BengalChris]

(12-13-2019, 11:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Pollack was able to run from game 1 last year. It took this staff 8 games to figure it out.

Yeah! It took them 8 games of horrible rushing from last years AFC leading rusher...to figure out they needed to make changes. Wow! What great coaches!

I'd absolutely swear that Taylor didn't know Mixon was on the team before mid-season.

He had Andy throwing it 50 times and handing it to Mixon very, very little.

He must have thought #28 was Elmer Fudd or something like that. Then he figured out the Mixon was actually the best player he has on offense. That's right, Mixon is the best player this team has on offense right now and all season long. It's amazing that they just ignored him for so long.

And for those who think it's hard to change a scheme around, the Pats do different things every week.

 

[BengalChris]

(12-13-2019, 11:24 AM)Au165 Wrote: They came in with a scheme they thought would help Mixon, most experts believed Mixon would thrive in that schem, but he didn't. They could only change it on a bye week because of how much work it  takes, so they were stuck with it but then installed a whole new scheme in a week. It's an impressive feat. 

And they didn't bother to test it out in pre-season.

So, because it's extra work, they let the whole first half of the season go down the toilet. Great!

Can we fire Taylor yet?

 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-16-2019, 04:20 PM)BengalChris Wrote: And they didn't bother to test it out in pre-season.

So, because it's extra work, they let the whole first half of the season go down the toilet. Great!

Can we fire Taylor yet?

 

I'm legit scared to have this staff coach Burrow.

[BengalChris]

(12-16-2019, 04:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm legit scared to have this staff coach Burrow.

I know. Burrow could be Joe Montana, but I'm afraid we'll never find out with Taylor and Mike Brown in charge.

 

[Au165]

(12-16-2019, 04:20 PM)BengalChris Wrote: And they didn't bother to test it out in pre-season.

So, because it's extra work, they let the whole first half of the season go down the toilet. Great!

Can we fire Taylor yet?

 

..that's not how it works. When people here say stuff like this is highlights an old saying when you listen to the fans you sit with the fans. Not to point you out specifically, because you are in the majority with this thinking, the reality though is the majority here have no clue how the X's and O's work in football.

[BengalChris]

(12-16-2019, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: ..that's not how it works. When people here say stuff like this is highlights an old saying when you listen to the fans you sit with the fans. Not to point out you specifically, because you are in the majority, the reality though is the majority here have no clue how the X's and O's work in football.

You don't use pre-season to try things out? Yes you do.

You let the half the season go south because you guessed wrong in the off season? The good teams don't do that. They'd have worked in fixes along the way.

Look at how the Steelers handled the Bengals in their first meeting this season. The Steelers came in with a whole new game plan and set of plays to blow out the Bengals. Yep, that's what they did.

For the Bengals though, it's just too much work.

[THE PISTONS]

We have 41 straight 2nd half drives without a TD:

And @JayMorrisonATH on the #Bengals incredible, debilitating streak of 41 straight second-half drives without a touchdown.

Why it’s happening, what it means and the ramifications of both. https://t.co/DBMdLsoUdw

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) December 16, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[THE PISTONS]

The Bengals ran a season-low 16 plays in "11 personnel" (1 RB, 1 TE). CIN also ran a season-high 23 plays in "12 personnel" (1 RB, 2 TEs), per NFL Next Gen.

Bengals ran a combined a 30 snaps in 12 personnel in the previous five games.

— Santa Baby (@Ben_Baby) December 16, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Au165]

(12-16-2019, 04:32 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You don't use pre-season to try things out? Yes you do.

You let the half the season go south because you guessed wrong in the off season? The good teams don't do that. They'd have worked in fixes along the way.

Look at how the Steelers handled the Bengals in their first meeting this season. The Steelers came in with a whole new game plan and set of plays to blow out the Bengals. Yep, that's what they did.

For the Bengals though, it's just too much work.

Actually, no not really. Most defenses you are playing with you are getting very basic looks that aren't going to tell you what will or won't work. In general though you spend all off season installing an entire scheme, considering you are only playing a quarter  two you will never get to see how your setups and then your counters off the setups work because there is little game flow and there is no pre scouting to suck teams into fakes. 

You "Let it go" because you can't install a whole new scheme in three days especially when you have to game plan for the next opponent. There is a difference between a game plan and a scheme. We tried a couple different game plans early in the season and those all did not work either, we needed to rebuild the scheme. A game plan is taking things you do and picking and choosing WHAT you are going to do using that foundation. A scheme is HOW you do it and that comes with technique and fundamentals that have to be understood in order to understand the branches of adjustments off it. 

The Steelers changed their game plan they didn't change their scheme. They didn't ask their line to block any different, they limited route trees they didn't ask them to run them any different, they limited the reads for the QB they didn't change the way they read the defense, they chose to run more they didn't change their running style.

You see the difference? This is actually exactly what I was just talking about above.

I'll go ahead and expand on this, with Pin and Pull it's pretty basic zone blocking on the backside with basic rules to the frontside on down block versus pull however the TE/OT Combo that occurs has a couple variations because of the overhang defender. We motion TE's often as well as motion WR's down which then take over TE/OT Combo rules. That kind of change doesn't just happen overnight. It was an easier transition then saying going from an outside zone team to say a man blocking scheme but there is legit work by both the line and the TE/WR group that has to occur to implement the Pin and Pull piece.

[BengalChris]

(12-16-2019, 04:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Actually, no not really. Most defenses you are playing with you are getting very basic looks that aren't going to tell you what will or won't work. In general though you spend all off season installing an entire scheme, considering you are only playing a quarter  two you will never get to see how your setups and then your counters off the setups work because there is little game flow and there is no pre scouting to suck teams into fakes. 

You "Let it go" because you can't install a whole new scheme in three days especially when you have to game plan for the next opponent. There is a difference between a game plan and a scheme. We tried a couple different game plans early in the season and those all did not work either, we needed to rebuild the scheme. A game plan is taking things you do and picking and choosing WHAT you are going to do using that foundation. A scheme is HOW you do it and that comes with technique and fundamentals that have to be understood in order to understand the branches of adjustments off it. 

The Steelers changed their game plan they didn't change their scheme. They didn't ask their line to block any different, they limited route trees they didn't ask them to run them any different, they limited the reads for the QB they didn't change the way they read the defense, they chose to run more they didn't change their running style.

You see the difference? This is actually exactly what I was just talking about above.

I'll go ahead and expand on this, with Pin and Pull it's pretty basic zone blocking on the backside with basic rules to the frontside on down block versus pull however the TE/OT Combo that occurs has a couple variations because of the overhang defender. We motion TE's often as well as motion WR's down which then take over TE/OT Combo rules. That kind of change doesn't just happen overnight. It was an easier transition then saying going from an outside zone team to say a man blocking scheme but there is legit work by both the line and the TE/WR group that has to occur to implement the Pin and Pull piece.

I got all that. But if you can bet that Belichick would have fixed it long before the half way point. Heck, even Marvin would have fixed long before then as well.

 

[Au165]

(12-16-2019, 09:28 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I got all that. But if you can bet that Belichick would have fixed it long before the half way point. Heck, even Marvin would have fixed long before then as well.

 

Belichick/scarnecchia have ran the same scheme for essentially 20 years. Belichick doesn’t have to worry about it because he hasn’t had to bring in a whole new scheme. They did however have an issue when Scarnecchia left and their line went to shit. Belichick ended up bringing him back, wait for it, two years later to fix it. Now they didn’t instantly go to crap it degraded over the first year then bottomed out the next when they finally brought the guy out of retirement because it got so bad.

Most teams don’t fix these issues mid year, in fact most don’t acknowledge it was their scheme and agree to fix it ever really. In general coaches die with their scheme and get fired going down claiming the issues were talent based, Taylor and company should be applauded for fixing it not scolded for “wasting half a season”.