Joe Burrow vs Trevor Lawrence

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'd most likely take Peyton Manning over Burrow if they were in the same draft, but they are not. So gimme Joe Cool

So you would take Flacco?  That is what he was called for a while.  Matty Ice for Matt Ryan and Joe Cool for Joe Flacco.

So between Lawrence and Burrow... who do you have?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-29-2019, 02:49 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So between Lawrence and Burrow... who do you have?

I’ll let you know after I see how they play each other in the championship game but seriously, draft Joe Burrow. Clemson’s defense will provide challenges he hasn’t seen before so let’s see how he does. I’m not sure the Oklahoma Sooner or Laters had a good defensive scheme going yesterday but Clemson always brings it on that side of the ball.

[Catmandude123]

(12-29-2019, 02:30 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Is Burrows better than Mahomes, Jackson, Mayfield, Watson or Lawrence.  If he is NOT then you don't take him.  Why take a guy you aren't 100% sure on?  Burrows will have to play against these guys while he is in the league and IF he isn't the guy that can beat them then why waste the pick?

How do you know any player is better than current NFL players? Truth is you don't. As much as you tout Lawrence just how do you 100% know he is better than others? You don't. If you know so much you ought to start a "future fantasy league". Burrow makes the most sense in this draft. Football is a team sport that takes others to help you achieve greatness. Hopefully Burrows helps and gets help to improve our team. More than anything else I hope he succeeds because we will have to listen forever to your 'I told you so" comments if he doesn't. But on the bright side we won't have to ever hear from you again if he succeeds.

[*Synric*]

(12-29-2019, 07:57 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: His detractors point out his rise out of nowhere.  How he has been in college football for a while and didn't start at OHIO and transferred to an already good/decent team at LSU.  They point out that he does have a good OLine, good WRs that have to keep adjusting for his throws and great coaching.

His supporters vehemently deny he has any of those things.  They use buzzwords and phrases like "competitor", "great vision", "leader", "accurate", "does things that I haven't seen any QB do in a long time" (my personal favorite).

I can apply all of this to Trevor Lawrence too.

Clemson has the best offensive line in college football. They have a pair of great receivers in Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross who are known for their body control, making adjustments to the football, and making contested catches. Clemson also has one of the best running and receiving backs in college football in Travis Etienne. 

Clemson has a great coaching staff that continually produces NFL talent while staying near the top in college football rankings and has won 2 of the last 3 CFB National Championships with a chance to win a 3rd which will make them the all time leader in Championship wins since they started the CFB Playoffs.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe Burrow is the sure thing.  He's available this year, and the Bengals have first choice in the draft.

What you are proposing is a lot of supposition, what if's, and counting on unpredictable things to all fall a certain way.  (which really seems unfeasible in reality)

1st... Burrow is a sure thing?  Maybe us drafting him, but he is far from a sure thing as being the superstar that many on here hope he is. 

2nd... the only thing that I am proposing is who would you take IF they were in the same draft?  Burrow or Lawrence.  We know the Bengals are taking Burrow, we know he will be here (unless he refuses to play for the Bengals, now that would be something).  However, the question is how does he stack up compared to other QBs, some in the league and one that will be in the league next year or the year after.

I know how I view Burrow, I know how many others on here view him.  I disagree with them, but this thread is really just a what would you do IF these 2 were your options?

As to the reality, then ONLY thing that keeps Lawrence from being a Bengal is the management (or Lawrence refusing to play, wonder what the NFL would do then if players refuse to come to Cincinnati?).  Good management could work out the right deal to get the number 1 pick no matter the year Lawrence declares (but really you think he doesn't declare after having the 2 seasons he has had?)  They would also have things in place before they draft QB to help him succeed. 

So we know the Bengals aren't a well run team.  They won't do what they need to do.  They will draft Burrow, then we will fail.  So the second option and the most likely with the management we have, is that we have the 1st pick next year.  Which means we either love Burrow and expect him to be the guy or we select Lawrence and hope to trade Burrow.  Sorta what Arizona did with Rosen and Murray.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 03:01 PM)Synric Wrote: I can apply all of this to Trevor Lawrence too.

Clemson has the best offensive line in college football. They have a pair of great receivers in Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross who are known for their body control, making adjustments to the football, and making contested catches. Clemson also has one of the best running and receiving backs in college football in Travis Etienne. 

Clemson has a great coaching staff that continually produces NFL talent while staying near the top in college football rankings and has won 2 of the last 3 CFB National Championships with a chance to win a 3rd which will make them the all time leader in Championship wins since they started the CFB Playoffs.

Yes you can.  Lawrence does have all that you claim and that makes him successful.

However Lawrence is undefeated since he started last year. Burrow only has this year.  Lawrence has 2 years compared to Burrow's 1.  Sustained success is just as important as being successful.

[*psychdoctor*]

I'm starting to think that you are a troll mental case.

We get it you don't like Joe Burrow you want to draft more draft picks but not Joe Burrow. You've only started dozens of threads to state this we don't need any more

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2019, 03:03 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: 1st... Burrow is a sure thing?  Maybe us drafting him, but he is far from a sure thing as being the superstar that many on here hope he is. 

2nd... the only thing that I am proposing is who would you take IF they were in the same draft?  Burrow or Lawrence.  We know the Bengals are taking Burrow, we know he will be here (unless he refuses to play for the Bengals, now that would be something).  However, the question is how does he stack up compared to other QBs, some in the league and one that will be in the league next year or the year after.

He's as sure as it gets, in this year's draft.  The Bengals have the first pick in THIS draft, not next year's or any other year's draft.  So yes, Joe Burrow is the only sure thing, at this point.
To the second bolded..  Hmm, perhaps you should go back and re-read some of your previous posts, in this very thread.  You certainly did propose a whole list of things that would need to transpire, in order for the Bengals to get to pick T. Lawrence, should he even come out in next year's draft.
Lastly, it appears that you were dodging the direct question as to the point of this thread.  It's painfully obvious to myself, along with several others who have expressed such, that your intent is simply to put a crack in the confidence of the fans who are eager for the Bengals to draft Joe Burrow.  The poll presented in the OP isn't even something realistic.  It's not an Apples to Apples comparison at all..

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 02:59 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: How do you know any player is better than current NFL players? Truth is you don't. As much as you tout Lawrence just how do you 100% know he is better than others? You don't. If you know so much you ought to start a "future fantasy league". Burrow makes the most sense in this draft. Football is a team sport that takes others to help you achieve greatness. Hopefully Burrows helps and gets help to improve our team. More than anything else I hope he succeeds because we will have to listen forever to your 'I told you so" comments if he doesn't. But on the bright side we won't have to ever hear from you again if he succeeds.

I don't... I don't claim to.

 
Me personally, I take Lawrence, Burrow, Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield and then Jackson.  If Luck is an option, then I probably take him over Lawrence. 
 
You don't have to listen to my "I told you so"... I will have it written down for you to read.
 
As to him succeeding... I will do what many on here did, bide my time until he doesn't succeed.  Dalton had a 8-0 record at one point, but the moment his record wasn't stellar people came out quick to blame him.  That is what I will do with Burrow.
 
Just pointing this out that even though people know who Burrow is even those that like him are prone to add the s at the end of his name.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 03:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He's as sure as it gets, in this year's draft.  The Bengals have the first pick in THIS draft, not next year's or any other year's draft.  So yes, Joe Burrow is the only sure thing, at this point.
To the second bolded..  Hmm, perhaps you should go back and re-read some of your previous posts, in this very thread.  You certainly did propose a whole list of things that would need to transpire, in order for the Bengals to get to pick T. Lawrence, should he even come out in next year's draft.
Lastly, it appears that you were dodging the direct question as to the point of this thread.  It's painfully obvious to myself, along with several others who have expressed such, that your intent is simply to put a crack in the confidence of the fans who are eager for the Bengals to draft Joe Burrow.  The poll presented in the OP isn't even something realistic.  It's not an Apples to Apples comparison at all..

Wow... Burrow is only a sure thing draft wise.  His success is not guaranteed.

No.  My proposal has always been who do you take IF they were in the same draft.  As to my previous post, I did post how it COULD happen, but that is only due to people claiming incorrectly that Lawrence is off the table.  Truth is we don't know where we will be picking in 2021 and we don't know if Lawrence will declare.  Odds are that he does declare and odds are we will have a top 10 pick.  It is rare for a team to go 1OA twice in a row, but not unheard of.  So we do have a reason to compare the 2 QBs.

Finally, it sounds like you are taking sides.  I can't crack confidence in fans.... either Burrow is the guy or he isn't.  Either the other fans are happy with the selection or they aren't.  The purpose of the thread is who do you take... Lawrence or Burrow.  We know what the Bengals are doing, we know who they are taking and we know that even if we have the 1OA next year, we won't be taking Lawrence.  So all of that is moot and not important.  The question is for the fans to pick who they would take between the 2.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 03:12 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I'm starting to think that you are a troll mental case.

We get it you don't like Joe Burrow you want to draft more draft picks but not Joe Burrow. You've only started dozens of threads to state this we don't need any more

I've made 3 threads... 1 is a mock draft with us taking Burrow...

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-29-2019, 03:34 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I've made 3 threads... 1 is a mock draft with us taking Burrow...

Okay.  I do agree with your premise that if they do pick Joe in a probably will they should probably just fix as much of the offensive side of the ball they can this year in draft including remake the offense line

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 02:58 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’ll let you know after I see how they play each other in the championship game but seriously, draft Joe Burrow.  Clemson’s defense will provide challenges he hasn’t seen before so let’s see how he does.  I’m not sure the Oklahoma Sooner or Laters had a good defensive scheme going yesterday but Clemson always brings it on that side of the ball.

Yeah it will be interesting to see them face off.  Something that both will do in the NFL.

Clemson has had a great run with Lawrence haven't they.  Last year they beat Alabama and now this year they have LSU.  LSU and Alabama have a historic rivalry and so this will be a way to cement Lawrence as the top QB since Luck.  A guy that has very little question marks and will excite the team's fan base like Burrow is doing for Cincinnati.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 03:37 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Okay.  I do agree with your premise that if they do pick Joe in a probably will they should probably just fix as much of the offensive side of the ball they can this year in draft including remake the offense line

The OLine is atrocious.  Williams will help in that part, but that leaves a lot to be desired with only Williams and Hopkins.  I don't trust 2nd round OTs.  We got extremely lucky with Whitworth, but haven't done well since.

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-29-2019, 03:42 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: The OLine is atrocious.  Williams will help in that part, but that leaves a lot to be desired with only Williams and Hopkins.  I don't trust 2nd round OTs.  We got extremely lucky with Whitworth, but haven't done well since.

I don't know who this Fred Johnson guy is I didn't know he was on the team but he's doing well at left tackle

[Whatever]

(12-29-2019, 03:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't know who this Fred Johnson guy is I didn't know he was on the team but he's doing well at left tackle

His punch is ridiculous.  He's literally knocking guys backwards with just his initial punch.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2019, 03:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't know who this Fred Johnson guy is I didn't know he was on the team but he's doing well at left tackle

(12-29-2019, 04:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: His punch is ridiculous.  He's literally knocking guys backwards with just his initial punch.

It's gotta be because he was a UDFA, just like Hopkins.  That can be the only logical explanation..  

[Whatever]

(12-29-2019, 07:57 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So nearly everyone on this board want us to take Joe Burrow as the number 1 pick.  They claim him to be the next great QB and for some reason think we will win the SB easily with him.  However Burrow does have some detractors and these posters are being extremely cautious in giving Burrows the full support that he has on this board.

His detractors point out his rise out of nowhere.  How he has been in college football for a while and didn't start at OHIO and transferred to an already good/decent team at LSU.  They point out that he does have a good OLine, good WRs that have to keep adjusting for his throws and great coaching.

His supporters vehemently deny he has any of those things.  They use buzzwords and phrases like "competitor", "great vision", "leader", "accurate", "does things that I haven't seen any QB do in a long time" (my personal favorite).

However there is another QB that isn't available this year but will be next year.  That is Trevor Lawrence.

Unlike Burrow, Lawrence has succeeded from the start.  He is undefeated since he took over at Clemson and has all of the buzzwords that Burrow has.  He has also had a lot of his team leave for the NFL after last year and he hasn't missed a beat.  Not too many detractors on him but some still think Burrow is better.

I like Lawrence as a QB prospect better personally so my question is... if Burrow or Lawrence were to both be in the same draft which one would you take and why?

In the same draft, I would take Burrow.  The margin by which Burrow has outplayed Lawrence is much bigger than the margin Lawrence outplayed him last year.  Their stats over the last two years...

Burrow 590/857 68.8% 8102 yards 71 TD's 11 Int's

Lawrence 509/767 66.4% 6711 yards 66 TD's 12 Int's

Burrow also has the edge in rushing yards (710 to 691) and rushing TD's (11 to 9).

On top of that, Burrow has done it in a tougher conference and done it in a pro style offense.  Lawrence has better physical traits, but a lot of the hype with him was that he was good in year one and should only improve.  He has really only improved slightly in year 2.

[Big Boss]

Let's just cut the pretense and get right to the bottom line:

We are not going to draft Trevor Lawrence. Best let that go.

[Bengalholic]

(12-29-2019, 07:57 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So nearly everyone on this board want us to take Joe Burrow as the number 1 pick.  They claim him to be the next great QB and for some reason think we will win the SB easily with him.  However Burrow does have some detractors and these posters are being extremely cautious in giving Burrows the full support that he has on this board.

Literally no one on this board has said that. No one. Yet, you keep saying it's a thing. You're putting words in people's mouth so that you can argue against an absurd position that nobody actually believes.