Joe Burrow vs Trevor Lawrence

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-29-2019, 07:02 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: It has been inferred multiple times.  NO IT HAS NOT. NOT EVEN ONCE.



Will anyone be brave enough to stand behind Burrow and call for him to be more successful than Dalton?  No.  They will say he is better than Dalton but then stay silent if he has bad seasons. 

They are behind him now, but it won't be long before they are against him.

This board is starting to bore me.  I think I may just move on.  I wish I could say it was fun but it wasn't, unfortunately.  There doesn't seem to be anything of substance being posted and even hypothetical situations that should be there for people to think get bashed.

Have fun.

Yes. Because i'm tired of reading all this junk, i'm going to state right here and now that Joe Burrow is going to be a better QB than Andy Dalton, without having any clue as to what the team will do, other than drafting him.

He will make Andy Dalton look like the average, choke-artist that he is. 

Second bolded: It's about damn time. Not because this board is boring, because you're not mentally strong enough or smart enough to handle it. 

[Bengalholic]

(12-29-2019, 07:02 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: It has been inferred multiple times. 

Yes...by you. 

The problem is that I've seen no one imply that all we have to do is draft Burrow and we're magically Super Bowl bound, yet you keep stating that it's the position of many on this board.

[Bengalholic]

Only one is available to us this year and his skill set and potential are pretty damn crazy. If you have the opportunity to take a guy like that, and the opportunity is right in front of you...you take it! Just an analogy here, but you don't pass on Marino because you might be able to get Montana next year. If you do that, you're very likely to end up with neither.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-29-2019, 07:57 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So nearly everyone on this board want us to take Joe Burrow as the number 1 pick. They claim him to be the next great QB and for some reason think we will win the SB easily with him. However Burrow does have some detractors and these posters are being extremely cautious in giving Burrows the full support that he has on this board.

His detractors point out his rise out of nowhere. How he has been in college football for a while and didn't start at OHIO and transferred to an already good/decent team at LSU. They point out that he does have a good OLine, good WRs that have to keep adjusting for his throws and great coaching.

His supporters vehemently deny he has any of those things. They use buzzwords and phrases like "competitor", "great vision", "leader", "accurate", "does things that I haven't seen any QB do in a long time" (my personal favorite).

However there is another QB that isn't available this year but will be next year. That is Trevor Lawrence.

Unlike Burrow, Lawrence has succeeded from the start. He is undefeated since he took over at Clemson and has all of the buzzwords that Burrow has. He has also had a lot of his team leave for the NFL after last year and he hasn't missed a beat. Not too many detractors on him but some still think Burrow is better.

I like Lawrence as a QB prospect better personally so my question is... if Burrow or Lawrence were to both be in the same draft which one would you take and why?

Literally no one thinks that.

[Interceptor]

If we draft Burrow, please have an admin set this topic to show up on top the same time next year. Thanks.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-29-2019, 03:12 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I'm starting to think that you are a troll mental case.

We get it you don't like Joe Burrow you want to draft more draft picks but not Joe Burrow. You've only started dozens of threads to state this we don't need any more

Starting to?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-29-2019, 07:02 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: It has been inferred multiple times.  Will anyone be brave enough to stand behind Burrow and call for him to be more successful than Dalton?  No.  They will say he is better than Dalton but then stay silent if he has bad seasons. 

They are behind him now, but it won't be long before they are against him.

This board is starting to bore me.  I think I may just move on.  I wish I could say it was fun but it wasn't, unfortunately.  There doesn't seem to be anything of substance being posted and even hypothetical situations that should be there for people to think get bashed.

Have fun.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-29-2019, 08:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yes...by you. 

The problem is that I've seen no one imply that all we have to do is draft Burrow and we're magically Super Bowl bound, yet you keep stating that it's the position of many on this board.

We're gonna put Burrow out there all by himself and win all dem Superbouwls. 

You heard it here first 

[Whatever]

(12-29-2019, 06:51 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Finally someone with the sense to see the question and post actual thoughts and rebuttals.

What you say about Lawrence is true, but the point is that he did improve.  The numbers are similar but I give the edge to Lawrence because Lawrence has done it for longer, which speaks of sustained success.

If not for the year he had, Burrow may not even be in discussion.

There is a huge difference in level of competition, though.  Here are Burrow's stats against the AP Top 25 against Lawrence's...

Burrow 143/182 78.6% 1827 yards 15 TD's 2 Int's
Lawrence 40/57 70.2% 570 yards 5 TD's 1 Int

Not only has Burrow massively outperformed Lawrence, he's done it against much tougher competition.  

Furthermore, when you look at what DeShaun Watson did in the same offense as Lawrence, the cracks show even more...

Lawrence
2019 250/370 67.6% 3431 36 TD's 8 Int's
2018 259/397 65.2% 3280 30 TD's 4 Int's

Watson
2016 388/579 67% 4593 41 TD's 17 Int's
2015 333/491 67.8% 4109 35 TD's 13 Int's

Watson also has a huge edge in rushing yards and TD's.  

Or, compare Lawrence to Tua in 2018...

245/355 69% 3966 43 TD's 6 Int's

The hype with Lawrence after last year was that he would develop into one of those 4k+ yard 40+ TD QB's.  While he showed some improvement from last year, he still has a ways to go to hit that level of play and there's no guarantee he does next year.  

[Gdale_Bengal]

Burrow will do more for the bengals than Andy Dalton if given equal supporting casts in Andy's best years. Burrows ceiling is higher

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-29-2019, 11:03 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Burrow will do more for the bengals than Andy Dalton if given equal supporting casts in Andy's best years. Burrow’s ceiling is higher

Ah! Now THIS is a sensible, well reasoned post!

[swilson3828]

(12-29-2019, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Joe Burrow is the sure thing.  He's available this year, and the Bengals have first choice in the draft.

What you are proposing is a lot of supposition, what if's, and counting on unpredictable things to all fall a certain way.  (which really seems unfeasible in reality)

Over the years the Bengals have proven that a "sure thing" isn't a "sure thing"

[CJD]

(12-29-2019, 11:30 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Again he point is knowing how Burrow stacks up compared to other QBs.  People always want the best QB, which is a mistake as the right QB is usually the better option.  However if we want the best and we have 2 QBs right now that are coming into the league, Burrow this year and Lawrence next year, then it is prudent to look at who is the better prospect and take that one.

I disagree that we miss out on Lawrence from the perspective of competent management, but we both know that we don't have that and in reality you are right, we would miss out on Lawrence.

You have answered that Lawrence is the better QB...

That is the point of the thread.  Quit looking for angles.  There isn't any.

Now the way to go about Lawrence from a competent management standpoint.  This year we take Thomas and work on solidifying that OLine.  Even if great Andy shows up and we have the 32nd pick in the draft we can trade up (even if it by a lot) to draft Lawrence next year.  It depends one where we are exactly but again I use the extremes to show the possibility.  We trade Dalton (after Tagging him) and our 1st round pick and the following year's 2nd round that could be a conditional 1st, to the team that has the 1st pick.  If that team doesn't want/need Dalton then trade 2 1st round picks and a 3rd that could be conditional to 2nd.

This way, you have an OLine and a QB for the future.

Trading for the #1 pick to take Lawrence would require the person trading it away to be willing to...and if Lawrence is so much better than Burrow, then what are the chances the team with the #1OA pick, presumably there because they suck, would NOT want Lawrence for themselves?

And even if they don't the competition for that pick would be fierce. We'd probably have to give up 3 to 4 first round picks to get there, even if we have a top 10 pick.

OR.

We just take Burrow now and take an OT like Thomas (who is a strong but not elite OT prospect) next year...

You say I shouldn't look for angles because there aren't any, but I see angles ALL over your posts.

[Interceptor]

(12-29-2019, 11:03 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Burrow will do more for the bengals than Andy Dalton if given equal supporting casts in Andy's best years. Burrows ceiling is higher

Nothing has been done until it is done.

[CJD]

(12-29-2019, 04:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Literally no one on this board has said that. No one. Yet, you keep saying it's a thing. You're putting words in people's mouth so that you can argue against an absurd position that nobody actually believes. 

The technical term is "Strawmanning." You see it primarily in politics, but it occasionally leaks into other mediums :).

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-30-2019, 01:04 AM)Interceptor Wrote: Nothing has been done until it is done.

There are always conditions in the nfl. Burrow is an unproven player, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that in a few years under center with the bengals, giving them a chance to give burrow weapons and a better o line similar to what Dalton had a few years back, Burrow wins a few play off games.

[Hammerstripes]

To simply answer the OP, I would take Lawrence over Burrow if they were both in this year's draft.

That being said, there is no way in the world I would pass on Burrow this year. There's no way this team is finishing with 2-3 wins next year. Look at all of the close games we had this year. A couple of bounces the other way, this year's team wins 5 games and is picking 5th or 6th.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-30-2019, 03:26 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: To simply answer the OP, I would take Lawrence over Burrow if they were both in this year's draft.

That being said, there is no way in the world I would pass on Burrow this year. There's no way this team is finishing with 2-3 wins next year. Look at all of the close games we had this year. A couple of bounces the other way, this year's team wins 5 games and is picking 5th or 6th.

And if Jonah Williams is as good as we all hope that’s going to make a big difference. Say we tag AJ and him and Boyd both put up 1k+ yds as does Mixon...

We’d likely not be in a position to pick Lawrence.

Personally I feel like we got lucky as hell to end up with the #1 this year. Burrow is the best QB prospect to come out since Luck.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-29-2019, 10:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: There is a huge difference in level of competition, though.  Here are Burrow's stats against the AP Top 25 against Lawrence's...

Burrow 143/182 78.6% 1827 yards 15 TD's 2 Int's
Lawrence 40/57 70.2% 570 yards 5 TD's 1 Int

Not only has Burrow massively outperformed Lawrence, he's done it against much tougher competition.  

Furthermore, when you look at what DeShaun Watson did in the same offense as Lawrence, the cracks show even more...

Lawrence
2019 250/370 67.6% 3431 36 TD's 8 Int's
2018 259/397 65.2% 3280 30 TD's 4 Int's

Watson
2016 388/579 67% 4593 41 TD's 17 Int's
2015 333/491 67.8% 4109 35 TD's 13 Int's

Watson also has a huge edge in rushing yards and TD's.  

Or, compare Lawrence to Tua in 2018...

245/355 69% 3966 43 TD's 6 Int's

The hype with Lawrence after last year was that he would develop into one of those 4k+ yard 40+ TD QB's.  While he showed some improvement from last year, he still has a ways to go to hit that level of play and there's no guarantee he does next year.  

Good to see I'm not the only person who isn't a big fan of the guy who looks like a woman.

Lawrence isn't a Mayfield-esque bust, but you heard it here first; he will be nothing more than a middling starter in the NFL. Period.

I don't get why everyone is so enamoured with him.

And he looks like a woman.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(12-30-2019, 10:44 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Good to see I'm not the only person who isn't a big fan of the guy who looks like a woman.

Lawrence isn't a Mayfield-esque bust, but you heard it here first; he will be nothing more than a middling starter in the NFL. Period.

I don't get why everyone is so enamoured with him.

And he looks like a woman.

He has beautiful woman hair, but he far from looks like a woman lol