Internal Free Agency / Extensions

[Daddy-O]

(01-02-2020, 12:32 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Eifert was underused the 1st half of 2019.he wants to remain 
A Bengal. Retaining players that want to stay really helps 
In building a foundation 
I saw nothing from Sample that defined future threat
At TE.

Totally agree.  Although Eifert appears to have lost a step he had some big catches down the stretch. 

It's quite possible there were a couple of reasons he was awol the first half of the season: 1) terrible scheme (obvious) and 2) maybe he was still getting his legs back under him from the previous injury.

I think with a good off-season work on his speed and agility he can get back to where he was early in 2018.  A good re-sign IMO and can probably get him at a good price.

[Sled21]

(01-01-2020, 11:49 PM)Synric Wrote: Either way honestly I wouldnt walk away from either...I would bring in a guy like Karl Joseph and cut Shawn Williams.

Shawn Williams has played well. I'm content with our safeties, we need help elsewhere.

[Sled21]

(01-02-2020, 10:52 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Totally agree.  Although Eifert appears to have lost a step he had some big catches down the stretch. 

It's quite possible there were a couple of reasons he was awol the first half of the season: 1) terrible scheme (obvious) and 2) maybe he was still getting his legs back under him from the previous injury.

I think with a good off-season work on his speed and agility he can get back to where he was early in 2018.  A good re-sign IMO and can probably get him at a good price.

I think with the fact Eifert was hurt several years in a row, they were bringing him back slowly for both physical and mental reasons. Towards the end of the season he started looking like the old Eifert. Like he said in an interview, he's been rehabbing for so long, he hasn't had the opportunity to train, and looks forward to this off season of training.

[Sled21]

(01-01-2020, 10:38 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Oh, we definitely need to sign a free agent LB.

The question is: ....Will we?


We definitely don't have a history of signing free agents that are actually any good (and have a competitive market around them).

Which is why I want to re-sign Vigil haha. I don't want to leave his roster spot to a rookie after we let him go and then not sign a significant free agent LB XD.

Definitely resign Vigil. Keep Vigil, Pratt and maybe Evans as a backup, and can the rest of the linebacker room and bring in replacements.

[*ochocincos*]

I'm wary on that Joe Mixon deal for both sides actually.

$12 mill a year is lower than Gurley, Bell, Elliott, and David Johnson.
I think Mixon will want to get more than at least David Johnson, which would mean > $13 mill a year.

On the flip side, I don't think the Bengals will put up that kind of cash for a running back (nor should they).
Mike Brown will continue to prioritize QB, WR, OT, DE, and CB before a RB in terms of $$ invested.

[Hammerstripes]

You can forget about AJ Green signing a deal for $11 million per year. There's no chance that's going to happen

[Au165]

Green won't sign for $11 million, and he isn't signing a two year deal. Devin Funchess got 1$0 Million last year in FA and rumor is Robbie Anderson could get $12-13 million this season. AJ has said he still thinks he has 4 more elite years in him so he isn't going to take a contract that doesn't reflect that. Maybe he goes to the open market and then comes back based on offers, but I have a sneaking suspicion someone like the Saints/Packers would give him a massive deal.

Other than that I think the numbers look about right. I think Eiffert signs for less simply because that number would put him in top 10 territory and his play just doesn't match that. Billings may be a little high too as a NT but it's hard to tell because a guy like Linval Joseph and Star Louteli signed big contracts as NT's.

[Okeana]

(01-02-2020, 01:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: You can forget about AJ Green signing a deal for $11 million per year.  There's no chance that's going to happen

Then you let him walk.  TY Hilton statistically had better numbers over the last 4 seasons and is 2.5 million cheaper than his current contract.  AJ's market value according to sports track is 9 million based on injuries, production, and age.  offering green a higher guarantee should entice him to stay, but ultimately I think he will take a contract in this range from a team he has a chance to win a super bowl with like the patriots or green bay.  If you're going to dump superstar level money into a contract why not get someone like Amari Cooper who lacks injury concerns, has youth.  

This is also a very strong WR class so acquiring extra picks for players like andy dalton and glenn then you can get maybe 2-3 or 4-5 and turn those into WR picks.  Can you replace AJ green the superstar?  no, but how many teams have a superstar WR in the playoffs or can you make it up with depth.  So I'm not going to pay AJ green for the player he was, but the player he is.

[Okeana]

(01-02-2020, 01:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: Green won't sign for $11 million, and he isn't signing a two year deal. Devin Funchess got 1$0 Million last year in FA and rumor is Robbie Anderson could get $12-13 million this season. AJ has said he still thinks he has 4 more elite years in him so he isn't going to take a contract that doesn't reflect that. Maybe he goes to the open market and then comes back based on offers, but I have a sneaking suspicion someone like the Saints/Packers would give him a massive deal.

Other than that I think the numbers look about right. I think Eiffert signs for less simply because that number would put him in top 10 territory and his play just doesn't match that. Billings may be a little high too as a NT but it's hard to tell because a guy like Linval Joseph and Star Louteli signed big contracts as NT's.

I kinda responded to this in the post above, but I just want to add a few things on the Green aspect.  I based my price on what I would pay considering the risk and age.  I think if you're signing him its for two years because it gives both the organization and Green a chance to capitalize off of what I consider to be a better quarterback in Joe Burrow.  You can also add to the top end with a bonus structure based on playtime that could put him into that elite level of pay, but what you simply cannot do is front-load the contract with huge guarantees on base salary and then eat that cap when he goes on IR for another year.

[*ochocincos*]

Someone correct me if I'm way off base here, but I always thought WJ3 and Kirkpatrick worked best in different schemes.
WJ3 I always thought was best fit for man coverage that would stick to his receiver.
Kirkpatrick had speed limitations but worked best facing the action and fits best in zone.

The Bengals need to figure out which scheme they want and then keep the appropriate guy.

[Au165]

(01-02-2020, 03:19 PM)Okeana Wrote: I kinda responded to this in the post above, but I just want to add a few things on the Green aspect.  I based my price on what I would pay considering the risk and age.  I think if you're signing him its for two years because it gives both the organization and Green a chance to capitalize off of what I consider to be a better quarterback in Joe Burrow.  You can also add to the top end with a bonus structure based on playtime that could put him into that elite level of pay, but what you simply cannot do is front-load the contract with huge guarantees on base salary and then eat that cap when he goes on IR for another year.

I guess I took the proposal as a realistic approach, not what you want to happen. Your views on what you want to pay him don't align with the market or for that matter what is best for Green. The guy isn't taking a $4 Million dollar a year pay cut, again not when he thinks he has four elite years left. I see your TY Hilton example, but I'll counter with Sammy Watkins makes a million more than he currently does and isn't close to his production even being injured as much as he is. There are teams in this league with money and need that will pay AJ $15+ a year, I wouldn't do it but they are out there and he and his agent know it. The perfect place for him is a GB or NO where they are in win now mode and don't want to wait for a rookie receiver to get up to speed, maybe NE if Brady stays.

[fredtoast]

I don't know why so many people think Green can get a big deal from some other team.

What is the largest contract ever signed by a 32 year old free agent WR who missed an entire season plus the last half of the previous season because he was unable to recover from injury?

[corpjet]

No way I resign Eifert, clearly the TE is not part of Zac's offense, use that money for a LBer or other area of need

[BengalChris]

(01-01-2020, 08:40 PM)Okeana Wrote: Estimated cap before any extensions/signings (including Trey Hopkins) = $61,068,262


Cuts/Trades


Andy Dalton - 17.7mil - Trade
Cordy Glenn - 9.25mil - Trade
Dre Kirkpatrick - 8.45mil - cut (more if you can secure any trade)


Extensions


Trey Hopkins - 3 yr/ 20.4m  - cap hit 6.8m
Joe Mixon - 3 yr/36m  - 12m yr - 8m signing - 18m guar - cap hit 3.7m 2020 ( rookie contract)  11.3m 2021
WJIII - 4 yr/46m   -  11.5m yr - 8m signing - 23m guar - cap hit 11.9m


(Joe Mixon and WJ3 will play out their rookie contracts with the extension added after next year)   


Sign


AJ Green - 2yr / 22m -  11m yr -  7m signing bonus - 14.5m guar - cap hit 11m
Darqueze Dennard - 3yr / 18.9m - 6.3m yr - 6m bonus - 9.35 guar - cap hit 6.3m
Tyler Eifert - 2 yr / 17m  -  8.5m yr  -  6m bonus -  8.5m guar -  cap hit 8.5m
Andrew Billings - 5 yr / 45m - 9m yr - 12m bonus - 22m guar - cap hit 9m



Cap Before Free Agency/Draft  -  $51,234,929


Estimated Draft Cap (based on 2019 cardinals)  -  17m


Cap After Draft = $34,234,912






..............................................




In Summary, these are the big moves internally I would make moving into the 2020 season.   I do not believe in the Rent to own philosophy of player contracts in terms of franchise tags or single-year deals.  If your going to lock a player in give yourself wiggle room to trade that player towards the end of their contract to find value. 

When it comes to rookie contract extensions my philosophy is that you lock a player in before their last contract year and ultimately save yourself money over time because of positional contract inflation from year to year.  The benefit to the player is that while they won't make top dollar they can receive a bonus in cash a year earlier and it shifts injury concerns from the player to the team.  For Example, WJ3 could possibly make more money with a better performance next year and his 5th-year option, but if his play continues to decline because of the injury or gets injured again he could make significantly less.

I am no NFL contract expert so if something is off or my math is off,  feel free to let me know.

Thanks

I'd love it if that were what the team did.

They'll probably have to cut Glenn and I don't believe there's any dead money on his contract if he's cut him for the 2020 season.

There's some money there for outside free agents, hopefully a LB or two to replace existing starters.

 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(01-02-2020, 11:22 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm wary on that Joe Mixon deal for both sides actually.

$12 mill a year is lower than Gurley, Bell, Elliott, and David Johnson.
I think Mixon will want to get more than at least David Johnson, which would mean > $13 mill a year.

On the flip side, I don't think the Bengals will put up that kind of cash for a running back (nor should they).
Mike Brown will continue to prioritize QB, WR, OT, DE, and CB before a RB in terms of $$ invested.

Really? And Mikey is overpaying Gio right now by how much?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 12:29 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Really? And Mikey is overpaying Gio right now by how much?

Giovani Bernard's deal is only averaging less than $5 mill a year.
That's likely less than half of what Mixon will be looking to get.

EDIT: In terms of position spending, the Bengals have the following invested in each position for 2019...
QB - $17.4 mill
RB - $7.3 mill
WR - $28.1 mill
TE - $9.8 mill
OL - $27.9 mill
DL - $29.1 mill
LB - $4.5 mill
DB - $19.0 mill
ST - $5.7 mill

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(01-03-2020, 12:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Giovani Bernard's deal is only averaging less than $5 mill a year.
That's likely less than half of what Mixon will be looking to get.

EDIT: In terms of position spending, the Bengals have the following invested in each position for 2019...
QB - $17.4 mill
RB - $7.3 mill
WR - $28.1 mill
TE - $9.8 mill
OL - $27.9 mill
DL - $29.1 mill
LB - $4.5 mill
DB - $19.0 mill
ST - $5.7 mill

Backup RB - dime a dozen far too much money for that roster spot. 

And was someone putting Billings in for $9M per year? Again, way too much

[impactplaya]

(01-02-2020, 07:00 PM)corpjet Wrote: No way I resign Eifert, clearly the TE is not part of Zac's offense, use that money for a LBer or other area of need

TE wasn't a part of ZTs offense at the start of the season 
But it's no coincidence when the Bengals offense scored 
30 plus points the TEs were involved in the game plan 
ZT needs to incorporate more of the TE IN 2020.
Sorry Drew Sample is a major league bust 

[BengalsRocker]

(01-03-2020, 07:51 PM)impactplaya Wrote: TE wasn't a part of ZTs offense at the start of the season 
But it's no coincidence when the Bengals offense scored 
30 plus points the TEs were involved in the game plan 
ZT needs to incorporate more of the TE IN 2020.
Sorry Drew Sample is a major league bust 

Well at least the newbie dumbass coach ought to figure out who his current personnel are and stop with that Rams shit !

Other than his team keeping their motivation I don't think he has a clue.

[impactplaya]

(01-03-2020, 08:29 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Well at least the newbie dumbass coach ought to figure out who his current personnel are and stop with that Rams shit !

Other than his team keeping their motivation I don't think he has a clue.

I still.have concerns on.ZT and how he uses personal groups 
And concepts 
He goes away from making Mixon a center of the offense 
He totally forgot about Eifert and Uzomah being able to 
Lock.down.the middle of the field