The last time we traded back in the 1st...

[Sled21]

(01-02-2020, 10:15 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Wait, Burrow looks like a quitter? 

I didn't seem much quit in anyone wearing a Bengals uniform this year. And it's more than a little revisionism to say we traded back and got stuck with Price instead of Ragnow, when they were ranked right there together and for all we know Price was their guy all along....

[*Nately120*]

(01-02-2020, 10:45 AM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: I honestly feel the team failed on purpose. For most of the games this past season the Bengals were in the games but the offense and defense didn't seem to show up for the full game during those loses it honestly felt like the team tanked on purpose.  

The fact that we have a coaching staff that is in way over its head and an owner/gm who has a history of losing is just some giant coincidence, eh?

[Okeana]

lol you guys are insane. statistically, the best QB to ever enter the draft. Heisman winner, soon to be CFB champ, from a small town in Ohio. I mean this guy was literally made for the team.

[Sled21]

(01-02-2020, 11:03 AM)Okeana Wrote: lol you guys are insane.  statistically, the best QB to ever enter the draft.  Heisman winner, soon to be CFB champ, from a small town in Ohio.  I mean this guy was literally made for the team.

Yup, Burrow's Bengals will be the team to watch for a long time.....

[Whatever]

(01-02-2020, 09:11 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: No

Do you consider Carson Palmer a success?
Akili?
Klingler?
Jack Thompson?
Greg Cook was good but he didn't last long.

1st round QBs don't do well in Cincinnati for some reason. Dalton and Boomer were 2nd rounders and Anderson was a 3rd. Palmer had two winning seasons and one of those was after they switched to a run first offense in 2009. Ignore it all you want.

In fairness, the last three times we've traded down in the 1st, it has screwed us.

In addition to the Price/Glenn draft, you have the DeCastro for Zeitler/Thompson trade.  Zeitler was a good player and Thompson was a solid rotational player/spot starter, but DeCastro has arguably had a HoF type career to this point.  

You also had us trading with the Rams so they could get Steven Jackson while we wound up with Chris Perry.

[grampahol]

C'mon..The bengals overthink something? Unheard of! First, they have to have the ability to think. The bengals don't generally display thinking as their strong suit.. 

With this team there's a very fine line between thinking and just staring at a blank spot on the wall hoping great things happen..  With any luck at all this year the blank spot on the wall wins out.. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.

It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.

Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.

/end rant

Some may say I'm giving Ross too much credit, but I think Ross has done better than Price from a performance standpoint when on the field.
PFF agrees with me, giving the following rates to each over the past two years:

Ross:
2018 - 49.4 (50.6 receiving, 52.1 rushing)
2019 - 63.0 (64.2 receiving, 47.0 rushing)

Price:
2018 - 49.4 (66.0 pass block, 48.9 run block)
2019 - 41.8 (26.1 pass block, 53.9 run block)

With that said, Ross was overdrafted at 9 overall and Price was overdrafted at 21 overall. The Bengals should have traded back some if they really wanted them. But they panicked on both Ross and Price because other players at those positions went sooner than they expected.

For as frustrating as this organization has been, they haven't selected 1st overall since 2003, so it could be a REALLY long time since they get this opportunity again. Take advantage of getting your choice of player without having to spend draft capital to do so.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 09:55 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I'm all for rolling the dice and taking a chance on drafting Joe Burrow but I want ONE more data point: The upcoming game against Clemson. Oklahoma's pass defense was, um, ah, let's be charitable and call it "porous." This does not take away anything from the quality passes Joe Burrow threw. Even if the windows are not so tight the passes still have to be thrown on target -- and they were.

Clemson presents a different problem than Oklahoma. Brent Venables is arguably the best defensive coordinator in college football and his pass defense is formidable. This will be Joe Burrow's hardest test -- a football version of a final examination -- and I hope he gets the highest grade possible.

Making your choice based off one game would be incredibly stupid. He’s put enough on tape already.

[RunKijanaRun]

(01-02-2020, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Some may say I'm giving Ross too much credit, but I think Ross has done better than Price from a performance standpoint when on the field.
PFF agrees with me, giving the following rates to each over the past two years:

Ross:
2018 - 49.4 (50.6 receiving, 52.1 rushing)
2019 - 63.0 (64.2 receiving, 47.0 rushing)

Price:
2018 - 49.4 (66.0 pass block, 48.9 run block)
2019 - 41.8 (26.1 pass block, 53.9 run block)

With that said, Ross was overdrafted at 9 overall and Price was overdrafted at 21 overall. The Bengals should have traded back some if they really wanted them. But they panicked on both Ross and Price because other players at those positions went sooner than they expected.

For as frustrating as this organization has been, they haven't selected 1st overall since 2003, so it could be a REALLY long time since they get this opportunity again. Take advantage of getting your choice of player without having to spend draft capital to do so.

Without question. Ross at least shows some ability when he plays. If I had to describe Billy Price as a food, I'd go with microwaved mashed potatoes. 

[MEBengalsFan]

What I dislike about Burrow is a more accurate Dalton coming out of college and college success doesn't mean he will have success in the NFL. If ZT passing scheme as the OC is for short to intermediate routes than Burrow will be an excellent pick; however, if ZT wants to throw it down field 20-30+ yards Burrow arm isn't as strong as other QB in this draft class.

I can see a few teams actually wanting Burrow and throwing whatever they have to get him. If the goal for the Bengals is to hoard draft picks to help build the team and another team offers 2+ 1st round picks and a bevy of other picks for Burrow you have to consider it given the many holes the Bengals have.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 10:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I didn't seem much quit in anyone wearing a Bengals uniform this year. And it's more than a little revisionism to say we traded back and got stuck with Price instead of Ragnow, when they were ranked right there together and for all we know Price was their guy all along....

We know Price was not their guy. Lap said as much.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 11:13 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Without question. Ross at least shows some ability when he plays. If I had to describe Billy Price as a food, I'd go with microwaved mashed potatoes. 

And Ogbuehi has at least been somewhat serviceable in JAX apparently. Price may very well be our biggest bust of the 1st round in recent memory.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 11:16 AM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: What I dislike about Burrow is a more accurate Dalton coming out of college and college success doesn't mean he will have success in the NFL. If ZT passing scheme as the OC is for short to intermediate routes than Burrow will be an excellent pick; however, if ZT wants to throw it down field 20-30+ yards Burrow arm isn't as strong as other QB in this draft class.

I can see a few teams actually wanting Burrow and throwing whatever they have to get him. If the goal for the Bengals is to hoard draft picks to help build the team and another team offers 2+ 1st round picks and a bevy of other picks for Burrow you have to consider it given the many holes the Bengals have.

Like Herbert’s big arm that threw for a whopping 138 yds yesterday in the Rose Bowl? Lol

People are too wrapped up in arm strength. Unless you have a complete noodle like Ryan Finley it is not that big of a deal. This mythical absolute perfect QB prospect people are looking for doesn’t exist. Burrow is as close as there’s been in years though. Lawrence might be even closer next next year, but we can’t worry about that right now.

[Bengalstripes9]

Looking at the list, Burrow is the best qb prospect since Andrew Luck. Mahomes may be better, but he wasnt a consensus top pick coming out. Burrow is widely viewed as the best prospect. You have to take him, especially after your current qb got you two wins and put you in position to draft number one overall. Yeah, the offensive line is more to blame. But you just cant miss out on a once in 5-7 year qb prospect when he’s staring you in the face.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-02-2020, 09:55 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I'm all for rolling the dice and taking a chance on drafting Joe Burrow but I want ONE more data point:  The upcoming game against Clemson.  Oklahoma's pass defense was, um, ah, let's be charitable and call it "porous."  This does not take away anything from the quality passes Joe Burrow threw.  Even if the windows are not so tight the passes still have to be thrown on target -- and they were.  

Clemson presents a different problem than Oklahoma.  Brent Venables is arguably the best defensive coordinator in college football and his pass defense is formidable.  This will be Joe Burrow's hardest test -- a football version of a final examination -- and I hope he gets the highest grade possible.

Clemson's defense ended the year ranked #2 in YPG. 

So far this year, LSU has played:
Georgia #4
Florida #10
Alabama #17
Auburn #21

It doesn't make much sense that this one game is going to decide whether he's worth a #1OA pick, considering his body of work against top competion the entire year, though i have little doubt he will perform as well as he has all year. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-02-2020, 11:31 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Like Herbert’s big arm that threw for a whopping 138 yds yesterday in the Rose Bowl? Lol

People are too wrapped up in arm strength. Unless you have a complete noodle like Ryan Finley it is not that big of a deal. This mythical absolute perfect QB prospect people are looking for doesn’t exist. Burrow is as close as there’s been in years though. Lawrence might be even closer next next year, but we can’t worry about that right now.

For sure ! It's the same thing people do with Tate. Because he can't out run Usain Bolt he's not capable of being a good to great WR. BS

Is Burrow gonna out arm Elway or Marino in their prime ? No But that doesn't mean he can't make all the throws he has to ! A giant part of throwing the long passes is timing. A beat early and it's over thrown, a beat late it's under. Being able to wing it 80 yards in the air from your knees does not give you that feel, that touch. Burrow has that touch.

[guyofthetiger]

I just hope the Bengals have an open mind. Yes, Burrow would be a good fit. However, remember he has a great offensive line to work with. If a good trade opportunity comes about, at least consider it. I can see getting multiple first round picks and/or a slew of players for the first pick.

[Luvnit2]

(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.

It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.

Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.

/end rant

Please provide factual evidence this is true (Bengals wanted Ragnow) or stop.

End rant

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 12:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For sure ! It's the same thing people do with Tate. Because he can't out run Usain Bolt he's not capable of being a good to great WR. BS

Is Burrow gonna out arm Elway or Marino in their prime ? No But that doesn't mean he can't make all the throws he has to ! A giant part of throwing the long passes is timing. A beat early and it's over thrown, a beat late it's under. Being able to wing it 80 yards in the air from your knees does not give you that feel, that touch. Burrow has that touch.

He has a better arm than Dalton, and that’s one thing that’s never really been an issue for Andy here.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 12:42 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I just hope the Bengals have an open mind. Yes, Burrow would be a good fit. However, remember he has a great offensive line to work with. If a good trade opportunity comes about, at least consider it. I can see getting multiple first round picks and/or a slew of players for the first pick.

Why do people keep claiming this? The LSU OL is average, at best. Burrow has actually been pressured a lot this year.