Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Besides the 18 Million and the draft capitol. Another reason you want the backup to have a similar skill set to the starter. Mariota of the Titans fits the Bill.

[*jason*]

(01-19-2020, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks think a team will give up a draft choice of any value for Andy? "18 mil is a lot of money, but (insert team) will give up at least a 2nd rounder for him". 

You make it seem as if the team owes Andy; was that your intent? 

If they can't get anything of value, they can just all out release him... No cap hit. I dunno about a 2nd but I feel as though they'll get something outta him.

[Catmandude123]

(01-19-2020, 09:38 PM)jason Wrote: If they can't get anything of value, they can just all out release him... No cap hit. I dunno about a 2nd but I feel as though they'll get something outta him.

The only leverage the Bengals have is the scarcity of starting QBs. There will be a bidding war for his services because he is under contract for 2020 but I wouldn't count on anything but a third rounder. Rivers has reportedly move to Florida so maybe Dalton lands in LA.

[*jason*]

(01-19-2020, 10:45 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The only leverage the Bengals have is the scarcity of starting QBs. There will be a bidding war for his services because he is under contract for 2020 but I wouldn't count on anything but a third rounder. Rivers has reportedly move to Florida so maybe Dalton lands in LA.

Yeah... I just read that too. That dude's been commuting for hours for years now. He's either retiring or movin' on.

[Luvnit2]

(01-19-2020, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks think a team will give up a draft choice of any value for Andy? "18 mil is a lot of money, but (insert team) will give up at least a 2nd rounder for him". 

You make it seem as if the team owes Andy; was that your intent? 

I have not seen anyone after this season say AD would bring a 2nd round pick.

AS for money, check out Flacco contract. Denver gave Ravens a 4tth round pick for him, but Flacco's has a 18 million cap hit in 2019, but worse over 40 million in 2020 and 2021 with a ton of dead money if they cut Flacco

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/joe-flacco-4000/

AD's 17.7 million not guaranteed looks like  steal for someone who thinks he could start for them.

[Catmandude123]

(01-19-2020, 10:52 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... I just read that too. That dude's been commuting for hours for years now. He's either retiring or movin' on.

Ariens may have talked him into playing for the Bucks next year?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-19-2020, 04:42 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: LOL  Is that all?!?

Yeah but Dalton had Green, even though a rookie, was a field stretched and a super-talented threat...  not an aged and oft injured Green.

Dalton had a lot of better things than Burrow currently is walking into.

Now a successful draft and a decent attempt at Free Agency could even it up some.

Even still, he had better coaching too.

Yeah, the FO is going to have to do a lot of good things to get this team where it was as good as when Dalton was drafted.

If they trade Dalton before FA it will free up 17 mil and letting Glenn and Kirkpatrick go will free up a lot too.

We should have a lot of dough to spend on Lineman and LB's.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-20-2020, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, the FO is going to have to do a lot of good things to get this team where it was as good as when Dalton was drafted.

If they trade Dalton before FA it will free up 17 mil and letting Glenn and Kirkpatrick go will free up a lot too.

We should have a lot of dough to spend on Lineman and LB's.

By now you should know that we won't spend that money on anyone that would be a top tier starter.  That's why I wouldn't let Glenn or Kirkpatrick go.

I'd trade Dalton just to get a pick. 

All that money will just go to either Mikey's pocket or to resign our own.

[GreenCornBengal]

Rookie Dalton > Veteran Dalton
Rookie Joe > Rookie Dalton
Rookie Joe > Veteran Dalton

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-20-2020, 03:19 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: By now you should know that we won't spend that money on anyone that would be a top tier starter.  That's why I wouldn't let Glenn or Kirkpatrick go.

I'd trade Dalton just to get a pick. 

All that money will just go to either Mikey's pocket or to resign our own.

We will see, if that is the case I don't think the fans will be back. Need to make moves to bring the fans back.

If Mikey doesn't care what you say will happen.

(01-20-2020, 03:24 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Rookie Dalton > Veteran Dalton
Rookie Joe > Rookie Dalton
Rookie Joe > Veteran Dalton

Agreed.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-20-2020, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, the FO is going to have to do a lot of good things to get this team where it was as good as when Dalton was drafted.

If they trade Dalton before FA it will free up 17 mil and letting Glenn and Kirkpatrick go will free up a lot too.

We should have a lot of dough to spend on Lineman and LB's.

Yeah.  The Family/Tobin need to do a lot.  The coach needs to do a lot.

Burrow is just the start.  They need to NAIL this draft.

The fact that they didn't move Dalton, or anyone else at trade deadline is maddening.

The draft is all we got as far as I'm concerned.  They might luck out there. 

The extra picks from those trades could've given them extra "spins".

To put faith that the Bengal's Front Office will successfully get FAs to not only fill holes but to upgrade positions is futile.

They are historically bad at it recently.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-20-2020, 07:11 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah.  The Family/Tobin need to do a lot.  The coach needs to do a lot.

Burrow is just the start.  They need to NAIL this draft.

The fact that they didn't move Dalton, or anyone else at trade deadline is maddening.

The draft is all we got as far as I'm concerned.  They might luck out there. 

The extra picks from those trades could've given them extra "spins".

To put faith that the Bengal's Front Office will successfully get FAs to not only fill holes but to upgrade positions is futile.

They are historically bad at it recently.

Cannot disagree. Can only hope.

[Aland]

(01-04-2020, 01:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, I've seen a lot of people list Joe Burrow has a huge upgrade for next year, when trying to make the case for vast improvement in 2020. Sorry guys, but that's not at all likely or probable.

Long-term, yeah we all think and hope that Burrow will be a upgrade. Hopefully a tremendous one. But year 1, right out of the gate, I'm not sure how or why this idea is floating around so much. Even more puzzling, it's often represented as a stone-cold fact. i.e. "We'll have Burrow next year so that's a reason for 2020 improvement."

Fwiw, I wanted to title this as greater or equal to, but that symbol escapes my tablet. But the equal to portion of the equation... that's the best case scenario in this comparison. The best case scenario for a rookie QB, and an oustanding season, is that of at or near an average starting QB in the NFL. Which is what Andy is.

None of this is to say that Burrow won't make some throws that Andy can't or didn't. I'm sure he can and will. And none of this is to say our offense can't or won't improve either. It very well may. And as a result Burrow very will cohld post significantly better numbers.

But as a position grade, or evaluation or comparison, with simply taking everything else out of the equation (OL, talent, coaching, etc.) I don't know how this argument is easily made, much less won. If you want or choose to believe this team is going to see a significant amount of immediate improvemenf then I think you need to find reasons other than Burrow is already an upgrade.

I'm not even a big Andy fan, never have been. I've always considered him average. And I'm excited about Burrow and the fact we're finally getting a potential elite level QB. I hope he is great someday. I just don't expect that this year.

If burrow is the second worst qualifiedQB starter in the NFL next year, it will be better than Andy’s 2019.