Jason Garrett or Zac Taylor?

[*Nately120*]

(01-07-2020, 03:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Jason garret for OC?

He didn't call plays in Dallas.

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-07-2020, 12:24 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: No idea why this thought entered my head today, but it did.

If you had to choose twixt these two guys to head the Bungles in 2020, whom would you choose?

Bengals should do the following...

Bring Garret in as Special Assistant Offensive and Wade Philips as Special Assistant Defensive. These two would be the eyes and ears to the OC and DC and help Taylor out with HC duties as well. Imagine having two prior HC on staff to help out Taylor. 

[RunKijanaRun]

(01-07-2020, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Accuse me of being a Marvin and Garrett fanboy if you must, but why should I be more excited about pairing an awesome prospect like Joe Burrow with a HC who set records for losing in his first year more so than hypothetically pairing him with Marvin, who had a winning record here and did some good things with two QBs we were happy to see leave, or an offensive-minded HC like Garrett who has 9 years of experience and a winning record in the NFL?

Personally, I'm more concerned with tethering Joe Burrow to a HC who looks to be in way over his head and who can't attract coaching talent more than I'd be worried to pair him with mediocre guys who win more than they lose and have some sort of history of bringing competent assistants with them.

I'm not going to argue that Zac is the next Wyche. In fact, I think he projects rather dubiously. But your post is not unlike my Wife's cooking - creative, yet lacking in real substance and flavor.

He didn't set records for losing. Teams have gone 1-15 on multiple occasions and 0-16 has been done. If you're talking strictly in terms of Bengals records, okay, but that's a bit less of an indictment. And it's frankly disingenuous to compare Taylor after one year of this mess to either Garrett, who had a lot of talent year in and year out yet did nothing of significance and Lewis, who also had a lot of talent most seasons. And also had some real stinkers here. 

One season with all the mitigating circumstances Taylor had is just too small of a sample size. I'm not encouraged by a lot of what he did, but I'm also willing to give him a fair chance, which is something both Jason and Marvin have had, with average to subpar results. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-07-2020, 03:53 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I'm not going to argue that Zac is the next Wyche. In fact, I think he projects rather dubiously. But your post is not unlike my Wife's cooking - creative, yet lacking in real substance and flavor.

He didn't set records for losing. Teams have gone 1-15 on multiple occasions and 0-16 has been done. If you're talking strictly in terms of Bengals records, okay, but that's a bit less of an indictment. And it's frankly disingenuous to compare Taylor after one year of this mess to either Garrett, who had a lot of talent year in and year out yet did nothing of significance and Lewis, who also had a lot of talent most seasons. And also had some real stinkers here. 

One season with all the mitigating circumstances Taylor had is just too small of a sample size. I'm not encouraged by a lot of what he did, but I'm also willing to give him a fair chance, which is something both Jason and Marvin have had, with average to subpar results. 

That's fine, but there are things that go beyond the stench of 2-14 and starting 0-11 to make ZT doubters safe to doubt.  Yes, he's only been here 1 year and I'm not saying he won't improve, but I'm pointing out how worried we are about replacing him with head coaches with winning records over the span of 9+ years.  

What it comes down to is all hypotheticals aside, ZT is going to be our HC next year so most people who voted here are going to get exactly what they want.  It's sort of like when we had similar polls about if we would have wanted to get Peyton Manning after the Colts let him go or Jim Harbaugh after he left the 49ers...were those insane things to pass up?  No, but it's hard to say if we really have that much faith in who we have or if it's just sour grapes since we know we aren't getting option 2 in these cases.

Geez, for all we love the unproven guys we already have and the fear that known players will prevent their explosion you'd think people around here would stop complaining that we don't get any big free agents.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-07-2020, 12:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Rather just stick with Taylor for now. We know Garrett is a pretty mediocre HC. Taylor could still surprise us.

Feel the same, Garrett had tons of talent to work with in Dallas and still failed.

Get Taylor some more talent in here to go along with Burrow and like you said Nicomo, he could still surprise us.

[XenoMorph]

(01-07-2020, 03:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He didn't call plays in Dallas.

well then...   I still think we need an actual OC that calls plays.


To me that will be the most impressive move ZT can make this offseason.

[*Nately120*]

(01-07-2020, 06:36 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: well then...   I still think we need an actual OC that calls plays.


To me that will be the most impressive move ZT can make this offseason.

Did we fire Brian Callahan or will we?  We have QB coach at HC and a QB coach at OC...where is this improved play-calling going to come from?  Maybe ZT just keeps doing it and learns on the job, I guess because I don't see us changing our coaches because if ZT is gonna cook the meal he's gotta pick his chefs and he's gotta Drew Sample the ingredients, or something. 

[Luvnit2]

In 2019, Zac Taylor made mediocre (.500 coaching records) look like HOF possibilities.

Let's hope in 2020 ZT does not crap his pants again.

[BengalsRocker]

It's like riding in one of the self-driving taxis.

You hope for the best, but you're not in control... let's just see if we get to our destination and hope it's not imminent doom.

[Nati#1]

Jason Garrett is a puppet and just claps.. marvin 2.0

[*Nately120*]

79% of people (me included) said they'd only feel ok about ZT if he won 6 or more games in 2019 according to this poll and here we are glad that he is our HC and two guys with winning records aren't.

Are we full of crap?

http://thebengalsboard.com/polls.php?action=showresults&pid=528



EDIT: Seems I didn't vote in that poll but I'll admit I was one of the "We have to do better than 2018 with a new HC" types, though I also had a feeling things could go very bad.

[SunsetBengal]

Bah! Offseason threads suck!!

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

I think Jason Garrett failed spectacularly with a very talented roster.

I think Zac Taylor failed in his rookie HC season with no experienced veteran coaching around him and a roster depleted by injuries/retirement. I never thought of this as much of a playoff team before any of that but without your #1 WR and an offensive line not sure what people expected out of this season. I still think we need to get some veteran talent added in the coaching area. Bring on Bill Callahan as special adviser whatever and honestly I wouldn't be against replacing Lou with Wade Philips just for the experience.

[grampahol]

I lived in the Dallas area over 10 years and never meet a Dallas fan who actually liked Garrett.. I did meet several who wanted Marvin though.
It was pretty unanimous about Garrett. They all hated him.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-07-2020, 02:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Neither get me too excited, but I do think it's quite optimistic of us to pick 2-win Zac because we aren't interested in mediocre coaches like Marvin and Garrett who are both over .500.

Having faith a guy who set records for losing in year 1 can be great is what fandom is all about.

It’s not really about optimism, as opposed to Taylor is still somewhat of a question mark. Way larger sample size with Garrett, and he proved he couldn’t win much. With some pretty damn good teams, too.

[ezekiel23]

The best head coaching candidate out there was already swallowed up by Dallas.Just stick with Taylor.But please,Try and get someone who knows what their doing to call the plays.

[Von Cichlid]

(01-07-2020, 01:46 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Same here

Garrett is just ML 2.0

This is exactly what I was thinking, except current Lewis is actually a slight upgrade over current Garrett.  2003-2009 Lewis was significantly better.

[CornerBlitz]

I honestly have no clue but I didn't like what I saw from Taylor last season. With that said, I guess i don't mind giving him another opportunity.

[*Nately120*]

(01-08-2020, 01:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s not really about optimism, as opposed to Taylor is still somewhat of a question mark. Way larger sample size with Garrett, and he proved he couldn’t win much. With some pretty damn good teams, too.

Ehh, I guess.  By that logic though Nathan Peterman is a bigger question mark than Andy Dalton since Peterman has a short resume of crap and Dalton has a long resume that has a winning record but doesn't involve statement wins that Peterman could conceivably still get if he's given a chance.

If you are looking at two resumes and one has been working for a year with dead-last results and one has been working for a decade with slightly above average results and you think going with the younger guy is the right move because he might go from awful to great I would say you are indeed using a good bit of optimism in that judgment.  

Actually, Garret and Marvin are more like guys who have steady jobs but aren't very exciting and ZT is broke and living in his parents' basement but he's in a band and he might make it big and become rich and famous.  You'd hate to miss out on that, right?  Grab hold of that star!  Yeah, that's the comparison I want to make.  Ignore that resume one above this.

I can't see the future, so it is possible that next year in the NFL the Browns, Mitch Trubisky, Zac Taylor, and Josh Rosen are all aces and giving the doubters a big ol' crapola granola sandwich to eat. You thought we sucked for good reason, but we are the 180 squad!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-08-2020, 09:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, I guess.  By that logic though Nathan Peterman is a bigger question mark than Andy Dalton since Peterman has a short resume of crap and Dalton has a long resume that has a winning record but doesn't involve statement wins that Peterman could conceivably still get if he's given a chance.

If you are looking at two resumes and one has been working for a year with dead-last results and one has been working for a decade with slightly above average results and you think going with the younger guy is the right move because he might go from awful to great I would say you are indeed using a good bit of optimism in that judgment.  

Actually, Garret and Marvin are more like guys who have steady jobs but aren't very exciting and ZT is broke and living in his parents' basement but he's in a band and he might make it big and become rich and famous.  You'd hate to miss out on that, right?  Grab hold of that star!  Yeah, that's the comparison I want to make.  Ignore that resume one above this.

I can't see the future, so it is possible that next year in the NFL the Browns, Mitch Trubisky, Zac Taylor, and Josh Rosen are all aces and giving the doubters a big ol' crapola granola sandwich to eat. You thought we sucked for good reason, but we are the 180 squad!

The Peterman comparison is quite a stretch. We’ve seen HC’s struggle their 1st season and go on to become good coaches. Have we ever seen a terrible backup QB be as bad as Peterman go on to have a good career as a starter?