Interview with Duke

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-21-2020, 10:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, honestly your last sentence nails why we should move on if things do not improve.

If we are going to rely heavily on the Draft we better for damn sure be great at it.

Right,

Sure there's gonna be misses, no doubt. And sure you're gonna get some decent production from a handful of picks after 3rd round and run into a Geno once a decade.

But any way you slice it this team has way to many total misses and to many players just average or "still developing" at the top of the draft. We need to be much better picking from the cream at the top of the draft ! Especially if that's going to be like 90% of where our players come from.

This team is still in recovery mode from the 2015 draft.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-21-2020, 03:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Uhm while I can agree about the OL misses.. Not selecting a QB when we had one was not a blunder. Ross maybe so, but who knows who made the call on that pick.

KC had a QB too at the time. They still realized it’s the most important position, and the one they had, although pretty solid, was never going to get them over the hump.

Now they have the best QB in the league, and are playing in the Super Bowl.

[grampahol]

Ehhh...draft 7 punters this year since Huber is getting older..

[Benton]

(01-21-2020, 10:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's how - last 5 drafts

2015
1. 21 C. Ogbuehi - fail gone from team
2. 53 J. Fisher - fail gone from team
3A. 85 T. Kroft - gone
3B. 99 - P. Dawson - fail, not even in NFL

2016
1. 24 W. Jackson III - has been average at best lately, will that change ?
*2. 55 T. Boyd - very good
3. 87 N. Vigil - average probably at best, some would say not even that

2017
1. 9 J. Ross - for a top ten pick his production/availibility has been much lower than that, thus far pretty much a fail.
*2. 48 J. Mixon - very good
3. 73 J. Willis - fail, gone

2018
1. 21 B. Price - pretty much fail up to now, will it change ?
2. 54 J. Bates - average player
*3A 77 S. Hubbard - very good
3B 78 M. Jefferson - fail 

2019
1. 11 J. Williams - hasn't played a snap yet
2. 52 D. Sample - limited snaps then went on IR what 5th game ?
3. 72 J. Pratt - came on a bit late but jury is still out

That's three players above average out of 17 chances in the first three rounds in the last 5 drafts. Are there players that could still turn out ? Sure

But what matters are results, and the results have been bad no matter how you spin it. For a team that relies so heavily on the draft the success rate has to be twice what it has been.

This is where most of my frustration comes from.

For me, 2013 was the last good draft we had. We found players of value in several rounds (even if we didn't makes the most of all of them), and we addressed some needs. Since then, it's like we're dead set of taking certain positions at certain picks, and it's not working out. 

[yellowxdiscipline]

I'll be honest, im kinda done with Tobin, i think a lot his success can be traced back to Marvin being a good talent evaluator.

[Benton]

(01-22-2020, 08:56 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I'll be honest, im kinda done with Tobin, i think a lot his success can be traced back to Marvin being a good talent evaluator.

With this org, it's kind of hard to tell.

We had some outstanding drafting years in Marvin's early days; and the last several years we've completely stunk at the draft. And, yeah, we've gotten a starter or two out of necessity, but you can't convince me the last six were as good as the any other six years of the 00-20 era. We've just drafted bad. 

I don't know if it's Tobin, if it's a Brown or if was Marvin. I'm kind of waiting on the next draft to form an opinion. If we're drafting first overall and we take Tua and he sits out a year because of injury, then that's just too big of a coincidence. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2020, 09:12 AM)Benton Wrote: With this org, it's kind of hard to tell.

We had some outstanding drafting years in Marvin's early days; and the last several years we've completely stunk at the draft. And, yeah, we've gotten a starter or two out of necessity, but you can't convince me the last six were as good as the any other six years of the 00-20 era. We've just drafted bad. 

I don't know if it's Tobin, if it's a Brown or if was Marvin. I'm kind of waiting on the next draft to form an opinion. If we're drafting first overall and we take Tua and he sits out a year because of injury, then that's just too big of a coincidence. 

I've often wondered if we didn't just "get lucky" on a couple of those early ML era drafts ? I mean if you take a good hard, objective look at all the drafts in his era. Is the overall grade really that good ?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-21-2020, 10:37 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Everyone is rough on Duke which is very understandable. There have been some BAD misses since 2014. WTS, no team ever has a perfect draft even in the strongest classes. You need a balance of good drafting AND free agents. I think a mix of our hits in the draft and a couple of decent free agents every year would field a much better team. Instead, you get articles from Geoff Hobson swearing up and down Alex Redmond is the next Gene Upshaw and you end up reaching for John Ross when you didn't have to if you just retained one of Jones/Sanu (Marvin wanted to be #1 so he probably leaves anyway).

This year seems like a great opportunity to stack up at some positions since they pick 1st in every round. So we will truly see what Tobin and Zac are made of.

It is hard to judge from last years Draft with Jonah getting hurt. I liked the Sample pick initially as he was a great blocker in college
but he didn't produce as a rookie much at all. I still love the Pratt pick and I think he will be a good one. You are correct, with this 
year having the 1st pick at the start of every round should tell us a lot. Even then you can't really judge a pick until they play in the
NFL for a bit.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-21-2020, 10:47 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right,

Sure there's gonna be misses, no doubt. And sure you're gonna get some decent production from a handful of picks after 3rd round and run into a Geno once a decade.

But any way you slice it this team has way to many total misses and to many players just average or "still developing" at the top of the draft. We need to be much better picking from the cream at the top of the draft ! Especially if that's going to be like 90% of where our players come from.

This team is still in recovery mode from the 2015 draft.

Completely agree, just more reasons why we need to delve into FA more and get proven players.

[Big Boss]

Can someone explain this to me. Now the pundits are pondering a scenario where the Bengals trade the #1 pick to get Chase Young and a QB in Round One.

My question is how they expect this to be possible when Washington holds the #2 pick and are most likely to snatch up Young? The only team with multiple first round picks is Miami and that would put us back to #5. These pundits seriously see a scenario where Young drops that far?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 04:42 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Can someone explain this to me.  Now the pundits are pondering a scenario where the Bengals trade the #1 pick to get Chase Young and a QB in Round One.

My question is how they expect this to be possible when Washington holds the #2 pick and are most likely to snatch up Young?  The only team with multiple first round picks is Miami and that would put us back to #5.  These pundits seriously see a scenario where Young drops that far?

They are idiots, that is all.

[Big Boss]

(01-22-2020, 04:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: They are idiots, that is all.

Right? I've seen two videos now where they seriously discuss this scenario, and I'm sitting here like, "Are we just ignoring Washington sitting there at #2?"

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 04:49 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Right?  I've seen two videos now where they seriously discuss this scenario, and I'm sitting here like, "Are we just ignoring Washington sitting there at #2?"

Yes, there is a lot of dumb people talking out there right now. There is no way we trade down. 

I think these bastids just don't like the thought of the Bengals getting Joe Burrow. Even more of a reason to take him.

[BengalsFan1986]

I’m sure there are lots of fan bases who feel like the media have it out for their teams, but I really can’t think of another draft where the media was as blatant in their hopes for a trade of the number 1 pick. Some shows had entire segments devoted to multiple guys encouraging Burrow to refuse to play for Cincinnati. Most of that was before he and his dad came out and said he wouldn’t have a problem playing here, but it’s still there. I get they need to fill time and talking about trade scenarios is interesting, but for whatever reason it feels like these guys are just praying he ends up any where but Cincinnati. It’s crazy.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 05:22 PM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: I’m sure there are lots of fan bases who feel like the media have it out for their teams, but I really can’t think of another draft where the media was as blatant in their hopes for a trade of the number 1 pick. Some shows had entire segments devoted to multiple guys encouraging Burrow to refuse to play for Cincinnati. Most of that was before he and his dad came out and said he wouldn’t have a problem playing here, but it’s still there. I get they need to fill time and talking about trade scenarios is interesting, but for whatever reason it feels like these guys are just praying he ends up any where but Cincinnati. It’s crazy.

Been seeing the same stuff, it is crazy no doubt. Not even hiding their disdain for the Bengals lots of these assholes.

[J24]

(01-22-2020, 04:49 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Right?  I've seen two videos now where they seriously discuss this scenario, and I'm sitting here like, "Are we just ignoring Washington sitting there at #2?"

The only thing I can think of is their thinking that Washington and Detroit would make trades with a team that wants a QB. Still even if that happens I would think the Giants would take young. 

[J24]

(01-21-2020, 10:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's how - last 5 drafts

2015
1. 21 C. Ogbuehi - fail gone from team
2. 53 J. Fisher - fail gone from team
3A. 85 T. Kroft - gone
3B. 99 - P. Dawson - fail, not even in NFL

2016
1. 24 W. Jackson III - has been average at best lately, will that change ?
*2. 55 T. Boyd - very good
3. 87 N. Vigil - average probably at best, some would say not even that

2017
1. 9 J. Ross - for a top ten pick his production/availibility has been much lower than that, thus far pretty much a fail.
*2. 48 J. Mixon - very good
3. 73 J. Willis - fail, gone

2018
1. 21 B. Price - pretty much fail up to now, will it change ?
2. 54 J. Bates - average player
*3A 77 S. Hubbard - very good
3B 78 M. Jefferson - fail 

2019
1. 11 J. Williams - hasn't played a snap yet
2. 52 D. Sample - limited snaps then went on IR what 5th game ?
3. 72 J. Pratt - came on a bit late but jury is still out

That's three players above average out of 17 chances in the first three rounds in the last 5 drafts. Are there players that could still turn out ? Sure

But what matters are results, and the results have been bad no matter how you spin it. For a team that relies so heavily on the draft the success rate has to be twice what it has been.

2015- all busts
2016- Jackson, Boyd, Billings
2017- Ross not top 10 worthy but he's a good player, Mixon, Lawson, Wilson
2018- Bates, Hubbard, Phillips
2019- too early to tell but I'm confident in both Pratt & Williams moving forward

[impactplaya]

Missing playoffs and bad drafting go hand and hand

[XenoMorph]

(01-21-2020, 10:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's how - last 5 drafts

2015
1. 21 C. Ogbuehi - fail gone from team
2. 53 J. Fisher - fail gone from team
3A. 85 T. Kroft - gone
3B. 99 - P. Dawson - fail, not even in NFL

2016
1. 24 W. Jackson III - has been average at best lately, will that change ?
*2. 55 T. Boyd - very good
3. 87 N. Vigil - average probably at best, some would say not even that

2017
1. 9 J. Ross - for a top ten pick his production/availibility has been much lower than that, thus far pretty much a fail.
*2. 48 J. Mixon - very good
3. 73 J. Willis - fail, gone

2018
1. 21 B. Price - pretty much fail up to now, will it change ?
2. 54 J. Bates - average player
*3A 77 S. Hubbard - very good
3B 78 M. Jefferson - fail 

2019
1. 11 J. Williams - hasn't played a snap yet
2. 52 D. Sample - limited snaps then went on IR what 5th game ?
3. 72 J. Pratt - came on a bit late but jury is still out

That's three players above average out of 17 chances in the first three rounds in the last 5 drafts. Are there players that could still turn out ? Sure

But what matters are results, and the results have been bad no matter how you spin it. For a team that relies so heavily on the draft the success rate has to be twice what it has been.

and whats the average of teams getting very good players to bust in the same scenarios?

[yellowxdiscipline]

(01-22-2020, 09:12 AM)Benton Wrote: With this org, it's kind of hard to tell.

We had some outstanding drafting years in Marvin's early days; and the last several years we've completely stunk at the draft. And, yeah, we've gotten a starter or two out of necessity, but you can't convince me the last six were as good as the any other six years of the 00-20 era. We've just drafted bad. 

I don't know if it's Tobin, if it's a Brown or if was Marvin. I'm kind of waiting on the next draft to form an opinion. If we're drafting first overall and we take Tua and he sits out a year because of injury, then that's just too big of a coincidence. 

Yea id say thats a Tobin move.