My Coworker is CONVINCED

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-21-2020, 01:03 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I don't think you thought that one through. Having a player good enough to be triple-teamed most plays, puts the defense at a huge advantage numbers-wise. It either takes away 2 receivers or requires one on one blocking on the DL. That's usually saved for the JJ Watts. If you're telling me Young will be JJ Watt, it'd be hard to pass that up. 

Double teams do not always result in someone else getting home. If they did we’d have guys constantly getting double digits sacks when teams focus on Geno.

[Schmitbuck]

(02-21-2020, 01:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Double teams do not always result in someone else getting home. If they did we’d have guys constantly getting double digits sacks when teams focus on Geno.

So you think having a guy on the DL that requires double and triple teaming isn't good for the rest of defense? I'm not sure what you're arguing. 

[BonnieBengal]

(02-21-2020, 01:18 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I think you're weighing a player's opponent's team success a little too heavily in your individual player evaluations.

Yeah, I remember you and a few others joking about Ryan Shazier being paralyzed in a draft thread. I don't hate any teams like that. 

Why don’t you show me where I joked about Shazier? I probably said truthfully that he continually targeted others with head shots which was true and not a joke. I hate the Steelers for continually targeting our players and getting away with it. Why can’t you just disagree with me without making me out to be evil?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-21-2020, 01:39 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: So you think having a guy on the DL that requires double and triple teaming isn't good for the rest of defense? I'm not sure what you're arguing. 

I’m not arguing anything, just pointing out I’d rather have Burrow than Young. And Young being held in check in some big games down the stretch just strengthened that.

[*jason*]

(02-21-2020, 01:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not arguing anything, just pointing out I’d rather have Burrow than Young. And Young being held in check in some big games down the stretch just strengthened that.

I agree that Burrow is the pick, but you can't triple team Young in the NFL... He will wreck shop wherever he ends up. I'm hoping the same for our guy.

[BonnieBengal]

(02-21-2020, 01:59 PM)jason Wrote: I agree that Burrow is the pick, but you can't triple team Young in the NFL... He will wreck shop wherever he ends up. I'm hoping the same for our guy.

My initial feeling is Young is a bust, at least if he's picked high in the first round.  I guess time will tell, but I hope we do not pick him #1 OA

[Kingslayer]

Newton is 6-12 over his last 18 starts including 1 playoff game. I'd rather keep Dalton if I had to choose

[*jason*]

(02-21-2020, 03:43 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: My initial feeling is Young is a bust, at least if he's picked high in the first round.  I guess time will tell, but I hope we do not pick him #1 OA

We're not going to take him, but I have a hard time seeing him as a potential bust. If he goes to Washington, he, Allen, and Sweat are gonna be scary.

[grampahol]

(02-21-2020, 03:43 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: My initial feeling is Young is a bust, at least if he's picked high in the first round.  I guess time will tell, but I hope we do not pick him #1 OA

My initial thoughts on Young is that OSU and many big college teams also play against some extremely weak opponents. Young may just be all that and a bag of chips in the NFL, but he could also be the guy who only thrives when they're playing teams like Rutgers weeks on end at a time. I mean they played Miami of Ohio and blew them out 76-5, Maryland 76-14, Cincinnati 42-zip and so on. If you're not putting up huge numbers in games like those something is definitely wrong. BTW..the Rutgers game was a tad closer..56-21, but the point still sticks with me that big powerhouse teams in college don't always have to play real competition all season long. It kind of skews the numbers to make anyone appear to be the greatest of all time when they really aren't.
LSU on the other hand had a much tougher schedule, but still had a few powder puff games mixed in..Georgia Southern and Utah State and they too were blowouts, but not to the extent of OSU's powder puff schedule.. I realize they're not always going to play the best teams, but OSU in particular seems to get more low hanging fruit on average than anyone else.

[*jason*]

(02-22-2020, 12:56 AM)grampahol Wrote: My initial thoughts on Young is that OSU and many big college teams also play against some extremely weak opponents. Young may just be all that and a bag of chips in the NFL, but he could also be the guy who only thrives when they're playing teams like Rutgers weeks on end at a time. I mean they played Miami of Ohio and blew them out 76-5, Maryland 76-14, Cincinnati 42-zip and so on. If you're not putting up huge numbers in games like those something is definitely wrong. BTW..the Rutgers game was a tad closer..56-21, but the point still sticks with me that big powerhouse teams in college don't always have to play real competition all season long. It kind of skews the numbers to make anyone appear to be the greatest of all time when they really aren't.
LSU on the other hand had a much tougher schedule, but still had a few powder puff games mixed in..Georgia Southern and Utah State and they too were blowouts, but not to the extent of OSU's powder puff schedule.. I realize they're not always going to play the best teams, but OSU in particular seems to get more low hanging fruit on average than anyone else.

Joey and Nick Bosa played some cupcakes too... They're pretty good.

People are falling prey to recency bias with Chase Young. He was held "in check" the last few games while being triple teamed, and game planned around. You can't do that in the NFL. You really can't do it at the collegiate level. When Wade was ejected for targeting in the Clemson game, Young was triple teamed, and still got to Lawrence a second after Wade. With 3 guys accounting for Young, Wade could get home in no time. He's gonna be a stud in the NFL.

[grampahol]

(02-22-2020, 01:15 AM)jason Wrote: Joey and Nick Bosa played some cupcakes too... They're pretty good.

People are falling prey to recency bias with Chase Young. He was held "in check" the last few games while being triple teamed, and game planned around. You can't do that in the NFL. You really can't do it at the collegiate level. When Wade was ejected for targeting in the Clemson game, Young was triple teamed, and still got to Lawrence a second after Wade. With 3 guys accounting for Young, Wade could get home in no time. He's gonna be a stud in the NFL.

All true so it's half dozen of one, six of the other. And then there's Cardale Jones winning a national title game... Something just doesn't add up in the big picture of things..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-22-2020, 01:15 AM)jason Wrote: Joey and Nick Bosa played some cupcakes too... They're pretty good.

People are falling prey to recency bias with Chase Young. He was held "in check" the last few games while being triple teamed, and game planned around. You can't do that in the NFL. You really can't do it at the collegiate level. When Wade was ejected for targeting in the Clemson game, Young was triple teamed, and still got to Lawrence a second after Wade. With 3 guys accounting for Young, Wade could get home in no time. He's gonna be a stud in the NFL.

He might be, but there’s a lot of excuse making going on here...

It’s silly to suggest teams weren’t planning for him like that all season. I don’t agree that he’ll be a bust, that’s crazy talk tbh. He’s going to be a good one. Not sure we should put him in the HoF just yet though.

[JSR18]

(02-21-2020, 03:51 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: Newton is 6-12 over his last 18 starts including 1 playoff game.  I'd rather keep Dalton if I had to choose

I'm really not going anywhere with this. I know Cam was injured, but did he just one day wake up and forget how to play football? Or did he just lose his "want to"?? 

[BonnieBengal]

(02-22-2020, 01:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He might be, but there’s a lot of excuse making going on here...

It’s silly to suggest teams weren’t planning for him like that all season. I don’t agree that he’ll be a bust, that’s crazy talk tbh. He’s going to be a good one. Not sure we should put him in the HoF just yet though.

I only mean he'll be a bust as a #1 OA pick.  He's not #1 OA caliber. 

[Schmitbuck]

(02-22-2020, 10:22 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I only mean he'll be a bust as a #1 OA pick.  He's not #1 OA caliber. 

General consensus is that he's the top defensive prospect in the draft. He's in rare company being a Heisman finalist as a defensive player. 

Forgive me, but I'll take the opinions of all the NFL guys over a 'feeling' you had from watching one game. 

[Schmitbuck]

(02-22-2020, 01:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He might be, but there’s a lot of excuse making going on here...

It’s silly to suggest teams weren’t planning for him like that all season. I don’t agree that he’ll be a bust, that’s crazy talk tbh. He’s going to be a good one. Not sure we should put him in the HoF just yet though.

There is a difference between 'excuse making' and giving valid football reasons. But since you don't think a defensive lineman being triple-teamed could effect their play, I can see how this could be confusing for you. 

Chase Young played Wisconsin twice this year. The first game he had 4 sacks & 2 FFs. The second game he was held w/o a sack (still had 6 tackles). How would you explain that? Perhaps they "planned" for him differently? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-22-2020, 11:57 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: There is a difference between 'excuse making' and giving valid football reasons. But since you don't think a defensive lineman being triple-teamed could effect their play, I can see how this could be confusing for you. 

Chase Young played Wisconsin twice this year. The first game he had 4 sacks & 2 FFs. The second game he was held w/o a sack (still had 6 tackles). How would you explain that? Perhaps they "planned" for him differently? 

Oh please, nobody is “confused” about anything.

Your boy’s stock dropped a bit because of Burrow, but his own play didn’t help. Get over it.

[BonnieBengal]

(02-22-2020, 11:31 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: General consensus is that he's the top defensive prospect in the draft. He's in rare company being a Heisman finalist as a defensive player. 

Forgive me, but I'll take the opinions of all the NFL guys over a 'feeling' you had from watching one game. 

You really don’t like criticism of OSU players, do you? True I watch mostly SEC games. I just don’t think Young has been playing a high level of competition and don’t think he’s really proven. Am I an SEC snob? Maybe. Even within the SEC I was wrong about Burrow. I never thought he’d beat Alabama.

[reuben.ahmed]

(02-20-2020, 02:41 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No. But it's my God given right to freedom of speech, galdarnit, and I'll be gosh darned if I ain't gonna take advantage of it.

To be honest, my coworker can't stand Bernie. S'why I used him.

Most people can't stand Trump, so we get it. 

Thought the title said "My Coworker is CONVICTED".

[BonnieBengal]

(02-22-2020, 11:31 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: General consensus is that he's the top defensive prospect in the draft. He's in rare company being a Heisman finalist as a defensive player. 

Forgive me, but I'll take the opinions of all the NFL guys over a 'feeling' you had from watching one game. 

You really don’t like criticism of OSU players, do you? True I watch mostly SEC games. I just don’t think Young has been playing a high level of competition and don’t think he’s really proven. Am I an SEC snob? Maybe. Even within the SEC I was wrong about Burrow. I never thought he’d beat Alabama.