TJ on John Ross: 'They took his confidence'

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-19-2020, 10:33 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I don't think ML ever had any interest in featuring Ross in the offense. I believe JR was force fed to ML and he resented it. Perhaps Ross was a Duke pick ? a brain trust pick ? A MB pick ? Maybe that pick was the opening crack in the parting of ML and MB ?

I'll be honest, I'm not filled with optimism that Ross is gonna stay consistent enough to ever be a #1 or even a #2. However, I'm willing to see what he can do with Burrow/new offense/better use.

I think that's fair.  I just hope everyone will give him another shot.  Doesn't matter if the JN boards do or not, because I am certain the Bengals are going to see what he can do this year.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-19-2020, 11:16 AM)Destro Wrote: Didn't say being #1 WR in the NFL or anything. No matter how bad the QB or line is, the TEAM will still have a #1 WR and #2, #3, #4. AJ was number one receiver with Dalton and with the O-line. Green went out. No comparing Ross to Tyreek Hill or Davante Adams, who are on different teams. Every Bengal receiver played with the same line and QB. Ross did not become the #1 WR in the 2019 season. Doesn't matter if the Bengals were the #32 offense in the league, they would still have their #1 pass catcher and he was not that. The mention of the QB position or O-line is a cop out. It is the same one every other player on the field dealt with. Ross is supposed to do just as well as the others. 

In 8 games he produced mover 500 yards receiving and 3 TDs.  Project that to a 16 game season and you have over 1000 yards and 6 TDs, which is almost exactly what our "#1 WR (that has more experience and plays a more highly targeted slot position) had, Tyler Boyd.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-19-2020, 07:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Just stop. If Ross still sucks even with Burrow he’s clearly a lost cause.

Have to agree with this one...even if he simply doesn't stay healthy, he would likely not be retained next year.  All the more reason to get a guy like Mims or Claypool with our second pick.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-20-2020, 09:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Have to agree with this one...even if he simply doesn't stay healthy, he would likely not be retained next year.  All the more reason to get a guy like Mims or Claypool with our second pick.  

I'm still just not very confident about our current receivers. I sure hope they go WR in either 2nd or 3rd as well.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-20-2020, 09:40 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm still just not very confident about our current receivers. I sure hope they go WR in either 2nd or 3rd as well.

It would be stupid not to. WR class is just too good to pass up.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-20-2020, 09:40 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm still just not very confident about our current receivers. I sure hope they go WR in either 2nd or 3rd as well.

I love our current crop of WRs...only need one more real talent like Mims or Claypool to put it all together.  I just don't want to lose Green AND Ross next year and have to essentially start over for Burrow.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

I don’t even think we need to take a WR in the 2nd to get a really good one. If we could get Pittman in the 3rd I’d be very happy.

[Sled21]

(04-18-2020, 03:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Has John Ross ever played under a OC at.the NFL
Level that has  a resume that reflects success?
You can have all the god given talent in the world
But if it can't be schemed correctly then it's wasted

And you can have the best OC in the league, but if you give up on plays, and drop the ball, then that is also wasted.

[*pally*]

Interesting juxtaposition of mindsets.  Ross needs to be told how good he can be.  Burrow needs to be told he is bad 

Quote:Burrow said he is now hearing how good he is rather than all the things he needs to improve about his game. He said it’s easier to have the right mindset to keep working to prove yourself “when you have people telling you how bad you are than when people are telling you how good you are,” but it appears inevitable that he’ll have to continue adjusting to his new reality on Thursday.

[Sled21]

(04-20-2020, 10:18 AM)pally Wrote: Interesting juxtaposition of mindsets.  Ross needs to be told how good he can be.  Burrow needs to be told he is bad 

Ok Burrow, you suck, you are not ready to play in a league of full grown men, you're gonna get killed."  That ought to do it.

[impactplaya]

(04-20-2020, 10:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And you can have the best OC in the league, but if you give up on plays, and drop the ball, then that is also wasted.

Yeah dropping the ball well...that is something alot of WRS
Do. RBs. TEs. Ross,had 6 drops last year. Julian Edelman had 9.
Dalvin Cook had 7. Deebo Samuel had 7. Mark Andrews had 6
I guess,they all should be benched too right ?.
Giving up on a play ...what was the 2 season ago and its purely 
Subjective 
Heres a stat for you 
12,of his 28 catches went for more than 20 yds 
Is that a bad trait too?

[Hammerstripes]

(04-18-2020, 12:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He's fast: When he wants to be, otherwise he gets blanketed by 30+ year old CBs running step-for-step with him.

He can run routes: But not always the right one, or always played through to completion.

He catches the ball: Except all the times he drops it.

- - - - - - - 

I do agree a lot of his issues are on the mental side (physical glass fragility aside) but it has nothing to do with them taking his confidence from him.

I'm not so sure about that .  When you come in as a rookie, you have no idea if you are good enough or not.  Almost every guy thinks they are, but after one mistake and you're pretty much benched from there on, how can it not affect him for a long time?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-20-2020, 12:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm not so sure about that .  When you come in as a rookie, you have no idea if you are good enough or not.  Almost every guy thinks they are, but after one mistake and you're pretty much benched from there on, how can it not affect him for a long time?

He was the 9th overall pick in his draft. There's nobody getting picked Top-10 wondering if they are good enough at football or not. A team handed him a $10.6m signing bonus. It's not like he's struggling for affirmation that someone believes in him.

Because hopefully he's an adult, and this was 3 years ago.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-20-2020, 01:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was the 9th overall pick in his draft. There's nobody getting picked Top-10 wondering if they are good enough at football or not. A team handed him a $10.6m signing bonus. It's not like he's struggling for affirmation that someone believes in him.

Because hopefully he's an adult, and this was 3 years ago.

I never said football, I said NFL.  None of us have ever played at that level, but I've known a few guys.  The mind of an elite athlete often times isn't as rock steady as you'd think.  A ton of these guys that come in are head cases.  Ross is obviously one of them,

[fredtoast]

(04-20-2020, 11:43 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Yeah dropping the ball well...that is something alot of WRS
Do. RBs. TEs. Ross,had 6 drops last year. Julian Edelman had 9.

Edelman had 153 targets.  Ross only had 56.

[fredtoast]

(04-20-2020, 12:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote:  but after one mistake and you're pretty much benched from there on

He wasn't just benched for "one mistake".  He was benched because he was not ready to play.

https://www.bengals.com/news/ross-listening-to-think-tank

"I let my injury get to me," Ross said. "I was trying to do more than I could. I was out of shape. I'm not trying to make excuses, but its real life things. You can't just come in the NFL and be that guy. You have to come in and prepare. I've learned that. It's growth and progression from here on."

Head coach Marvin Lewis didn't exactly give him a mulligan.  Ross heard about every mistake in the media, but he doesn't feel like he was in the dog house.

"Some of the stuff he was saying was true," Ross says.

There were plays that horrified him in practice. That's not who I am as a player, he thought. You're messing up. You're not performing like yourself. "I had to correct all that and I will."



It always cracked me up how so many people here complained about Marvin never holding players accountable, but when he did with Ross the same people complained about that also.  Marvin has a long history of playing rookies, and he was desperate to win in 2017.  It is absurd to think he intentionally benched Ross when he could have actually helped them win.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-20-2020, 01:15 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I never said football, I said NFL.  None of us have ever played at that level, but I've known a few guys.  The mind of an elite athlete often times isn't as rock steady as you'd think.  A ton of these guys that come in are head cases.  Ross is obviously one of them,

Yep. There’s a reason sports psychology exists.

[McC]

Wonder if there will ever come a day when the identical arguments on this made back and forth over and over again will be sufficiently repeated. The answer seems to be no.

I'm willing to bet there will be another Ross thread within the next thirty days and that no matter what the intent of the thread is, it will end the same as the forty thousand other Ross threads that came before it.

There is a pathological need to rehash this around here and never come to a conclusion. Bizarre.

The draft cannot get here soon enough.

[3wt]

(04-18-2020, 01:07 PM)Joelist Wrote: I hope TJ is also teaching Ross how to play the ball in the air because he is possibly the worst WR at that I have ever seen. And you can't try to lay this at the feet of anyone else because if it was not him then we would have most or all of our WRs exhibiting the same issues; but we don't. Really it is just Ross who drops balls that hit him right on the hands, loses the ball in the air and making easy plays hard and also flat out running the wrong route or prematurely breaking it off.

It sure looks that way.   But I do not believe he had any problem with that whatsoever.   The only tendency he brought from college is his propensity for being injured.

John was not the first player who got into Marvin's dog house and never got out.

It will take some serious effort to reverse this mindset of his.   The darn injuries didn't help.

But I really think that Burrow could be the guy to get his mind right.  That would be flat out awesome for this offense.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-20-2020, 09:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It would be stupid not to. WR class is just too good to pass up.

Agreed.
If AJ and Ross both show out, re-sign one and you have the draft pick to replace the other.
If only one shows out, re-sign that guy.
If both don't produce (for whatever reason), let them both walk. You then roll with Boyd, Tate, and draft pick.